Bollinger: Florimon is the favorite to start at shortstop

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

I understand what is generally meant by the term - calling out positioning, relaying calls, taking charge, etc - what I don't understand is the Gardy version of it. I don't think this is a layman's misunderstanding.

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Right. It's not hard to understand what he's getting at it -- the shortstop is the captain of the infield and certain responsibilities come along with that. What is hard to understand is why we should accept the Twins continually putting so much stock into an intangible quality with no discernible value. James Beresford might be great at controlling the infield but that doesn't overshadow his larger weaknesses. Ditto Pedro Florimon.

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Originally Posted by RodneyKline

That was very funny. All these baseball boards are usually made up of 49.99% people who played less baseball then you, 49.99% posers who never played at any advanced level but say they have and maybe one guy that played above high school who would never bother posting, because he knows the rest of us are tools... so you are OK to post away!!!

Funny side story...I coached a lot of Little League and I always had Dads that told me that they played pro or college ball so I would say "Oh that's great Mr Jeter, I will definitely want you out on the field to help me". I would then roll a ball to them and immediately see that they never even played t-ball. Hahaha!!! They played a few years of beer ball and they think that they can carry off that lie. So funny...

It ranks right up there with when big stupid meatheads who may or may not have been in the Navy or the Army for a couple years, says "oh yeah, I was a Navy Seal (or Army Ranger)". I almost burst out laughing because I know that they don't want big physical guys in the elite forces and I know they make those guys commit to 10 years minimum because of the millions they spend training them, so I know immediately that they are lying. The only "muscle" that they are looking for in those guys is the one between their ears. I am not saying that those guys are not in good shape but that is not what they are looking for in potential recruits. They want the brilliant guys. I don't know why I went off the subject of baseball there. Sorry about that...Ever since I had to leave my pro baseball career to join Team six of the Navy Seals and I was tortured by the Viet Cong at the Hanoi Hilton, I go off subject easily like this sometimes...anyway

Semper Fi to all my fellow sixers! Uh rah! (That's what we say all the time on team six...wait, I am so embarrassed, that was not in the Navy Seals that we said Semper Fi...we said that when I was the starting shortstop at Miami when I played D1 baseball before I joined the Army Rangers...I mean team six when we shot Obama bin Laden. Semper Fi meant "hey check out those hot cheerleaders". I would have you hit me some ground balls and show you or kill you with one finger but you know all that torture and stuff...

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I was an international baseball scout when the Agency recruited and trained me. We worked together on bringing down that Columbian drug lord. I was also in on the Wilson Ramos rescue...if only we could have rescued him from the Capps trade, it could've justified both my professions.

Seriously, this forum needs more humor like yours and less of the sixth-grade-turn Drew Butera's name- into-Peew Butt-aira type stuff.

Four months ago I would have cared about Carroll's option vesting, but that was before it became apparent they have little intention of maintaining an acceptable payroll. Now it doesn't matter, they aren't going to spend that money anywhere else.

"Florimon is the favorite to start at shortstop" Who's Favorite? Not mine.

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Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Right. It's not hard to understand what he's getting at it -- the shortstop is the captain of the infield and certain responsibilities come along with that. What is hard to understand is why we should accept the Twins continually putting so much stock into an intangible quality with no discernible value. James Beresford might be great at controlling the infield but that doesn't overshadow his larger weaknesses. Ditto Pedro Florimon.

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They put all kind of stok in intangibles and unmeasurables. It is why butera is on the roster, despite any numbers they believe he is great with pitchers. Despite the numbers and a track record, they think Correia is a gamer and innings eater and is "better than his numbers". It is why Cuddeyer was loved here, a great interview. Intangibles and immeasurables are super important to this team. Me, I prefer guys that product results.

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Originally Posted by snepp

Four months ago I would have cared about Carroll's option vesting, but that was before it became apparent they have little intention of maintaining an acceptable payroll. Now it doesn't matter, they aren't going to spend that money anywhere else.

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This. At this point, who cares, because they don't.

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Originally Posted by mike wants wins

They put all kind of stok in intangibles and unmeasurables. It is why butera is on the roster, despite any numbers they believe he is great with pitchers. Despite the numbers and a track record, they think Correia is a gamer and innings eater and is "better than his numbers". It is why Cuddeyer was loved here, a great interview. Intangibles and immeasurables are super important to this team. Me, I prefer guys that product results.

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Intangibles get played up for players who don't put up great (or in Florimon's case, acceptable) statistics.

TR and Gardy are basically saying about Florimon, "Ignore the tangible evidence that he's no good and take our word for it that he'll be just fine."

Oy. Just thought of those Butera at catcher days with Dozier, Florimon and Butera batting 7-8-9. There should be an asterisk on the opposing pitcher's ERA, not sure he deserves one full IP for getting through those three. Ok, that was harsh, but man. Those three at 7-8-9 is something that should only happen in August when everyone is hurt, not sometime in April when everyone is healthy.

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Originally Posted by RodneyKline

That was very funny. All these baseball boards are usually made up of 49.99% people who played less baseball then you, 49.99% posers who never played at any advanced level but say they have and maybe one guy that played above high school who would never bother posting, because he knows the rest of us are tools... so you are OK to post away!!!

Funny side story...I coached a lot of Little League and I always had Dads that told me that they played pro or college ball so I would say "Oh that's great Mr Jeter, I will definitely want you out on the field to help me". I would then roll a ball to them and immediately see that they never even played t-ball. Hahaha!!! They played a few years of beer ball and they think that they can carry off that lie. So funny...

It ranks right up there with when big stupid meatheads who may or may not have been in the Navy or the Army for a couple years, says "oh yeah, I was a Navy Seal (or Army Ranger)". I almost burst out laughing because I know that they don't want big physical guys in the elite forces and I know they make those guys commit to 10 years minimum because of the millions they spend training them, so I know immediately that they are lying. The only "muscle" that they are looking for in those guys is the one between their ears. I am not saying that those guys are not in good shape but that is not what they are looking for in potential recruits. They want the brilliant guys. I don't know why I went off the subject of baseball there. Sorry about that...Ever since I had to leave my pro baseball career to join Team six of the Navy Seals and I was tortured by the Viet Cong at the Hanoi Hilton, I go off subject easily like this sometimes...anyway

Semper Fi to all my fellow sixers! Uh rah! (That's what we say all the time on team six...wait, I am so embarrassed, that was not in the Navy Seals that we said Semper Fi...we said that when I was the starting shortstop at Miami when I played D1 baseball before I joined the Army Rangers...I mean team six when we shot Obama bin Laden. Semper Fi meant "hey check out those hot cheerleaders". I would have you hit me some ground balls and show you or kill you with one finger but you know all that torture and stuff...

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That is so very cool RodneyKline! Great to have you on the site.

I was a playground supervisor once, so, you know, we're like brothers!

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom

Intangibles get played up for players who don't put up great (or in Florimon's case, acceptable) statistics.

TR and Gardy are basically saying about Florimon, "Ignore the tangible evidence that he's no good and take our word for it that he'll be just fine."

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Exactly right, intangibles are a way for organizations to make excuses for poor personnel decisons, despite all the evidence to the contrary,"we know something about this player that actually makes them valuable, we just can't tell you exactly what that is, but trust us, it's there".

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Originally Posted by RodneyKline

Funny side story...I coached a lot of Little League and I always had Dads that told me that they played pro or college ball so I would say "Oh that's great Mr Jeter, I will definitely want you out on the field to help me". I would then roll a ball to them and immediately see that they never even played t-ball. Hahaha!!! They played a few years of beer ball and they think that they can carry off that lie. So funny....

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They must have loved having a smart ass, condescending jerk coaching their children. I'm going to try this when coaching my son's team this year, should make me really popular.

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Originally Posted by RodneyKline

Funny side story...I coached a lot of Little League and I always had Dads that told me that they played pro or college ball so I would say "Oh that's great Mr Jeter, I will definitely want you out on the field to help me". I would then roll a ball to them and immediately see that they never even played t-ball. Hahaha!!! They played a few years of beer ball and they think that they can carry off that lie. So funny...

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Did that make you feel better about yourself?

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Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

What is hard to understand is why we should accept the Twins continually putting so much stock into an intangible quality with no discernible value.

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Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it isn't there.

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Originally Posted by LoganJones

Just because you can't discern it doesn't mean it isn't there.

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If you cant discern it, how do you know that, are you a mystic?

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Exactly right, intangibles are a way for organizations to make excuses for poor personnel decisons, despite all the evidence to the contrary,"we know something about this player that actually makes them valuable, we just can't tell you exactly what that is, but trust us, it's there".

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Conversely, the Twins don't talk about Joe Mauer's intangibles very much because he puts up eye-popping statistics.

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom

Conversely, the Twins don't talk about Joe Mauer's intangibles very much because he puts up eye-popping statistics.

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And even more conversely, Mauer critics often cite his lack of "intangibles" as a way to denigrate him, despite all the hard "tangilbles" that actually show he is a great baseball player.

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Originally Posted by Boom Boom

Intangibles get played up for players who don't put up great (or in Florimon's case, acceptable) statistics.

TR and Gardy are basically saying about Florimon, "Ignore the tangible evidence that he's no good and take our word for it that he'll be just fine."

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And while I'm willing to believe that there is more than meets the eye with some players, it's awfully difficult to lend any credibility when the Twins use this type of reasoning to make blatantly horrible decisions like choosing Castro over Bartlett, Nishioka over Hardy, or Casilla over anybody. At what point do they take a step back and say, "We need to start reevaluating how we assess the shortstop position"?

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Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

And while I'm willing to believe that there is more than meets the eye with some players, it's awfully difficult to lend any credibility when the Twins use this type of reasoning to make blatantly horrible decisions like choosing Castro over Bartlett, Nishioka over Hardy, or Casilla over anybody. At what point do they take a step back and say, "We need to start reevaluating how we assess the shortstop position"?

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Probably when Gardenhire is no longer the manager.

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Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

At what point do they take a step back and say, "We need to start reevaluating how we assess the shortstop position"?

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I'd say not having a former no-hit middle infielder running the show who has a soft spot for, and "sees the value in" current no-hit middle infielders might be a start.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

I'd say not having a former no-hit middle infielder running the show who has a soft spot for, and "sees the value in" current no-hit middle infielders might be a start.

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He's not the one constructing the rosters, so I'd say the problem goes beyond him.