Re: Mauer's Contract

Mauers contract has always been a happy thought for me. When the Twins offered that contract... And Joe signed it... It told me that the Twins will try to retain our superstars or fan favorites.

I didn't have that feeling about the organization prior to that contract being signed.

When I think about Mauers contract... I don't think about if he's playing up to it... I don't worry about OPS... RISP or anything of the sort.

I think... Here's an example of the Twins no longer spending like a small market team. That thought sustains me thru periods of payroll dropping like it has the past few years.

Because of Mauers contract... I believe the Twins can and will add to the payroll when the time is right to do so.

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Originally Posted by Riverbrian

I think... Here's an example of the Twins no longer spending like a small market team.

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Yes, the lone example.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Yes, the lone example.

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That is true.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Yes, the lone example.

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Morneau. At the time he signed he was the 3rd highest paid first baseman ever.

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Originally Posted by Oxtung

Morneau. At the time he signed he was the 3rd highest paid first baseman ever.

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$13M a year is not a make-or-break, big market deal. Carlos Delgado was making more than that annually in the early 2000's. Plus, they had just let Hunter and Santana go, which doesn't scream of "adding payroll".

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

$13M a year is not a make-or-break, big market deal. Carlos Delgado was making more than that annually in the early 2000's. Plus, they had just let Hunter and Santana go, which doesn't scream of "adding payroll".

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It was a big market deal at the time. It was the 3rd highest salary ever for a first baseman. Delgado was not actually making more than Morneau annually. Todd Helton and Lance Berkman were the two that made more.

Riverbrian's point was that the Twins were willing to spend to retain their superstars and fan favorites. They did that with Morneau as well as Mauer. If you're looking to counter his point you should be pointing out Cuddyer or Nathan not arguing about Morneau.

The problem with spending money to retain their own superstars is that superstars need to come up through the system. There haven't been a whole lot of those recently.

Also, it's not wrong to spend money to bring in somebody else's superstars.

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Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Mauers contract has always been a happy thought for me. When the Twins offered that contract... And Joe signed it... It told me that the Twins will try to retain our superstars or fan favorites.

I didn't have that feeling about the organization prior to that contract being signed.

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Viola signed a contract that people were in an uproar about for its enormity. Puckett was made the highest paid player ever (it lasted like seven seconds, but still). Morneau got a big ol' contract. The Twins have a fairly good history of making sure their tippy-top players stick around even at high cost. It's something I really like. The alternative is to get a little too close to the reality of the Seinfeld bit that we're just cheering for laundry.

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Originally Posted by The Wise One

If Mauer was a free agent this winter what would have he commanded?

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This exact question crossed my mind as I was reading the Keri article when it was originally posted on Grantalnd, and again when I saw the original post in this thread. Just for comparison's sake, let's make it a six-year contract. (Although, now that I think of it, the length of a theoretical contract at this point would be an interesting discussion, too.) Is 6/120 in the ballpark? Maybe more? Hamilton just got 5/125. Fielder has 8/190 left or something like that. Torii Hunter got 2/26 at the age of 37. Just as a couple of "for instances" that jump to mind.

Look at the other contracts on that list of Keri's compared to the players' ages and performance. It's not even close. It would have been a shock if Mauer HAD been on there.

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Originally Posted by Oxtung

It was a big market deal at the time. It was the 3rd highest salary ever for a first baseman. Delgado was not actually making more than Morneau annually. Todd Helton and Lance Berkman were the two that made more.

Riverbrian's point was that the Twins were willing to spend to retain their superstars and fan favorites. They did that with Morneau as well as Mauer. If you're looking to counter his point you should be pointing out Cuddyer or Nathan not arguing about Morneau.

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So they re-signed Morneau to a $13M-a-year deal in the same offseason they opted to not pay top dollar to retain Santana and Hunter. But hey, those guys weren't "fan favorites" or anything. That's locking up one cheaper asset while letting two go due to money. That's not "big market" thinking, that's a prototypical example of mid-market thinking.

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Originally Posted by CDog

Viola signed a contract that people were in an uproar about for its enormity. Puckett was made the highest paid player ever (it lasted like seven seconds, but still). Morneau got a big ol' contract. The Twins have a fairly good history of making sure their tippy-top players stick around even at high cost. It's something I really like. The alternative is to get a little too close to the reality of the Seinfeld bit that we're just cheering for laundry.

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Viola... I can't remember what he signed for... What I do remember about Viola was his agent sending a pay me or trade me letter and and it pissed off Herbie and Gaetti and he was traded to the Mets soon after.

Puckett was a good feeling signing no doubt about it but if I remember right. There was a consensus amongst Twins and National press that he took a hometown discount.

Anyway... I was just talking about my personal perception of Mauer's contract (right or wrong) and why I don't have a problem with it. I continue to use Mauer's contract as a reason to feel that Sano will be locked up with competitive deal after he hits 60 dingers.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

So they re-signed Morneau to a $13M-a-year deal in the same offseason they opted to not pay top dollar to retain Santana and Hunter. But hey, those guys weren't "fan favorites" or anything. That's locking up one cheaper asset while letting two go due to money. That's not "big market" thinking, that's a prototypical example of mid-market thinking.

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They offered Santana and Hunter top dollar contracts. The issue was the Twins wouldn't commit to the # of years that they wanted. We offered Hunter 3 years @ $50+. Every other team was offering 4. Hunter wanted 5, but no body was offering that. We was about to agree with the White Sox when the Angels came out of no where and offered him 5 years.

IIRC we offered Santana 4yr/$85M, he wanted more years and the Twins rightfully refused.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

So they re-signed Morneau to a $13M-a-year deal in the same offseason they opted to not pay top dollar to retain Santana and Hunter. But hey, those guys weren't "fan favorites" or anything. That's locking up one cheaper asset while letting two go due to money. That's not "big market" thinking, that's a prototypical example of mid-market thinking.

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Well since they were a mid-market team in 2008.... (while slightly off topic I still think they're only a mid-market team)

All that said I have no illusions that the Twins are willing to shell out big for many players. I certainly don't think they're ever going to pay big to acquire a FA. I have merely been pointing out that they did spend on Morneau as well as Mauer to directly refute your one liner:

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Yes, the lone example.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

So they re-signed Morneau to a $13M-a-year deal in the same offseason they opted to not pay top dollar to retain Santana and Hunter. But hey, those guys weren't "fan favorites" or anything. That's locking up one cheaper asset while letting two go due to money. That's not "big market" thinking, that's a prototypical example of mid-market thinking.

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Santana' contract is on that list, btw. Just saying.

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Originally Posted by Han Joelo

Santana' contract is on that list, btw. Just saying.

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Yes, they don't work out most of the time, but you have to pay top dollar to get superstars, and Santana was the best pitcher in the league at the time. Injuries happen, and Santana had an exceptionally unfortunate rash of them since he moved.

If you let every player go when they need to get paid, you will be able to look at the vast majority of them at some point and say "boy, I'm glad we didn't pay him". Doesn't mean that you shouldn't ante up and overpay at some point if you want to try and have premium talent long-term and not just a revolving door of arbitration guys with one foot out the door when free agency is within sight.

I think the big contracts of Mauer, Morneau, and Pucket show that they are willing to spend big bucks on the right guys, but that it's more than just performance on the field. I think they do take into account attitudes and PR situations (they'll leave the bad press to the vikings and wolves), and the player's commitment to the Twins. They want to reward guys who want to be Twins. They aren't going to offer big money and years to a guy they think might start complaining loudly about the team in a few years, or start clamoring for a trade if the team is having a bad year. It would have been REALLY easy for Mauer or Morneau to start causing a fuss about the bad teams the last two years and instruct their agent to push to get them moved to a contender. But they didn't. I really think that's part of the reason the Twins gave them the big contracts. They want guys that will be loyal to the team through thick and thin.

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Originally Posted by Han Joelo

Santana' contract is on that list, btw. Just saying.

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And you'll find that offering long term high dollar contracts to pitchers is going to wok out a lot less often than it pays off. Fast forward to 2015 and you'll see a similar list with names like Anibel Sanchez, Zach Grienke, Edwin Jackson, CC Sabathia and Felix Hernandez on it.

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Originally Posted by spideyo

I think the big contracts of Mauer, Morneau, and Pucket show that they are willing to spend big bucks on the right guys, but that it's more than just performance on the field. I think they do take into account attitudes and PR situations (they'll leave the bad press to the vikings and wolves), and the player's commitment to the Twins. They want to reward guys who want to be Twins. They aren't going to offer big money and years to a guy they think might start complaining loudly about the team in a few years, or start clamoring for a trade if the team is having a bad year. It would have been REALLY easy for Mauer or Morneau to start causing a fuss about the bad teams the last two years and instruct their agent to push to get them moved to a contender. But they didn't. I really think that's part of the reason the Twins gave them the big contracts. They want guys that will be loyal to the team through thick and thin.

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So, the team preference is unquestioning drones. Sounds like a fun locker room to hang out in.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

So, the team preference is unquestioning drones. Sounds like a fun locker room to hang out in.

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As hard as it is to relate to people my age who are getting paid millions of dollars to play a game, I always try. In my workplace, they wouldn't be called unquestioning drones, but rather loyal soldiers who are on board with the company's way of doing things. As a non Minnesotan, I follow the Twins because I admire their business model; I am not a blind loyalist, I just like them. I think sticking together through the tough times is the very definition of a healthy organization.

Reading perhaps to deeply, I get the feeling you'd rather have a fiery semi-malcontent outfielder and a finely goteed left-hander on the team then a couple of pasty faced company lackeys from up north.

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Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Viola... I can't remember what he signed for... What I do remember about Viola was his agent sending a pay me or trade me letter and and it pissed off Herbie and Gaetti and he was traded to the Mets soon after.

I was just talking about my personal perception of Mauer's contract (right or wrong) and why I don't have a problem with it. I continue to use Mauer's contract as a reason to feel that Sano will be locked up with competitive deal after he hits 60 dingers.

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Working from memory, Viola got $1.3 Million. I still recall one of the affiliates out of Duluth reported the deal and had a lower-third graphic that read: "Frank Viola - Very Rich Man." And yes, I recall also that there was some contention about the deal and that didn't go over real big.

As for the other part quoted, I was happy when he signed the deal, I'm fine with it now, and I hope (and even expect) that some of Sano/Buxton/Arcia/etc will be getting large and long extensions before they hit free agency, too.