Thread: More Proof that the Twins Just Don't Care or Aren't Trying Very Hard

Originally Posted by jokin

Teams are known to cut players when they find something more intriguing, Martinez has a higher level of experience and AAA success.

Well, obviously the Twins do not find him intriguing as they have passed on him twice.

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

This isn't proof. This is supposition at best. (Not a pejorative).

Who said anything about proof? Parmellee tore the cover off the ball in his 2011 September call-up from AA and struggled in 2012 (.229/.290/.380). The evidence fairly convincingly suggests that the jump from AA to the majors is rarely a smooth one. Even if Herrmann tears the cover off the ball this spring, are you suggesting that he is somehow odds-on favorite to be on the opening day roster?

Originally Posted by The Wise One

Well, obviously the Twins do not find him intriguing as they have passed on him twice.

Yeah, I implied that in the opening post. I would like to know why they won't address a bench that threatens to conceivably hit below .600 OPS and factor in a chance to add positional depth pending a possible trade or injury to their current DH/C.

Originally Posted by jokin

Yeah, I implied that in the opening post. I would like to know why they won't address a bench that threatens to conceivably hit below .600 OPS and factor in a chance to add positional depth pending a possible trade or injury to their current DH/C.

Are you insinuating that somehow the Twins need MORE catchers added to the mix?

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Are you insinuating that somehow the Twins need MORE catchers added to the mix?

Fish or cut bait. I would also hope that the Twins would listen to offers to improve the club at every position. Right now, Butera still is an unacceptable major league ballplayer, Hermann is at least a half a year away, Mauer has to be limited to maximize the value of his contract and Doumit is a potential asset to improve the club via trade.

Originally Posted by jokin

Fish or cut bait. I would also hope that the Twins would listen to offers to improve the club at every position. Right now, Butera still is an unacceptable major league ballplayer, Hermann is at least a half a year away and Doumit is a potential asset to improve the club via trade.

1.) They paid Butera. Nobody else will take on that money for him. He's a Twin for the season.
2.) Herrmann could fill in as a backup catcher in a pinch. More minors ABs would be optimal, but worse comes to worse, he'd be serviceable in limited, third-catcher ABs.
3.) Are you saying that they should try and trade Doumit NOW? If it happens, it'll be possibly near the trade deadline, and guess who has had another "half a year" in the minors by that point?

We're aware that Butera sucks, but the Twins have committed to him, and screaming that they should bring in a marginal-at-best upgrade just for the sake of bring in a marginal-at-best upgrade is pointless.

Originally Posted by jokin

Fish or cut bait. I would also hope that the Twins would listen to offers to improve the club at every position. Right now, Butera still is an unacceptable major league ballplayer, Hermann is at least a half a year away, Mauer has to be limited to maximize the value of his contract and Doumit is a potential asset to improve the club via trade.

Doumit as trade bait would not happen unless some had a couple of catchers go down early or near the traade deadline. At the trade deadline Hermann would have a half year at AAA.
Others have stated the PCL is a hitters league with smaller parks, so his batting numbers may not translate well to mlb level. That would be a hint why he has been DFA'd twice.

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Are you insinuating that somehow the Twins need MORE catchers added to the mix?

That's 4 catchers right there with question marks about how much time they will/should serve behind the plate. Their 2 other rostered catchers haven't progressed far enough up through the organization to offer immediate or certain levels of contribution. That's now 6 question marks.

Originally Posted by jokin

That's 4 catchers right there with question marks about how much time they will/should serve behind the plate. Their 2 other rostered catchers haven't progressed far enough up through the organization to offer immediate or certain levels of contribution. That's now 6 question marks.

So bring in a 7th question mark, and a 6th catcher on the 40-man? Sounds like excellent usage of roster spots.

Originally Posted by jokin

That's 4 catchers right there with question marks about how much time they will/should serve behind the plate. Their 2 other rostered catchers haven't progressed far enough up through the organization to offer immediate or certain levels of contribution. That's now 6 question marks.

Seriously. Frankly. (And I do severely dislike Butera's scholarship)

Catching was not what made the Twins lose 99 plus 96. (matter of fact C, and LF were the only 2 positions that the Twins had OPS higher than the AL average last season)

Bigger. Fish. To Fry.
(and they have not fried them yet.)
So getting a better 5th Catcher for a 96-loss team, would be like putting lipstick on a cement yard ornament pig

Originally Posted by jokin

Who said anything about proof? ?

you did in the title of your rant.

Originally Posted by The Wise One

Doumit as trade bait would not happen unless some had a couple of catchers go down early or near the traade deadline. At the trade deadline Hermann would have a half year at AAA.
Others have stated the PCL is a hitters league with smaller parks, so his batting numbers may not translate well to mlb level. That would be a hint why he has been DFA'd twice.

You also have to look at the DHs in baseball. Doumit is one of the better ones and has potential value at not one, but 2 positions (not the best catcher, I know). The Rays are rumored to have Roberts on the block, and Rodriguez may be expendable as well, and have an iffy DH coming off of injury, that's but one example. If they or someone else is willing to consider a Spring Training trade, given the Twins holes in the infield, shouldn't the Twins be listening now, and be prepared to move seamlessly? If they wait until the deadline? Herrmann may be ready at the break, but then again, he may not. Good to have backup alternatives, yes?

Regarding Martinez's hitting, do you read the posts? I got the hint, as I pointed out that his AAA numbers were in the PCL, but they still translate far better than what the Twins currently have behind Doumit and Mauer for 2012. Is there anyone that doubts that Butera couldn't put up those kind of numbers in the PCL?

Originally Posted by The Wise One

you did in the title of your rant.

Different point than what I believe the poster was arguing against.

You can continue to defend what the the club has done in the offseason. I am looking at a club that addressed the most pressing need haphazardly from the rejection pile and the Red Cross casualty list, failed to address glaring problems in the infield and tore itself some new holes in the OF. Since they are rebuilding without admitting it publicly, it makes sense to have a plan in place to continue to improve the club by trading off assets that won't be a part of the finished rebuilt product in whatever year they secretly deem to be when they "really" return to competitiveness- Butera shouldn't be there now, let alone then and if they have any sense at all, Doumit probably won't be there, either. Martinez was acquirable for nothing and could have provided short-term depth to help make the team more stomachable during this bridge time and at least send the message that 9 shades below mediocrity as a hitting catcher is no longer acceptable, the spots should be earned, not deemed.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Seriously. Frankly. (And I do severely dislike Butera's scholarship)

Catching was not what made the Twins lose 99 plus 96. (matter of fact C, and LF were the only 2 positions that the Twins had OPS higher than the AL average last season)

Bigger. Fish. To Fry.
(and they have not fried them yet.)
So getting a better 5th Catcher for a 96-loss team, would be like putting lipstick on a cement yard ornament pig

Don't you see trade-value in Doumit, provided he puts up numbers akin to 2012, to upgrade the team longer-term?

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

So bring in a 7th question mark, and a 6th catcher on the 40-man? Sounds like excellent usage of roster spots.

Obviously, someone, or someones, are expendable, or in Doumit's case, possibly tradeable.

Are the other 28 teams also not trying? They also passed on claiming this guy. I understand if you do not agree with what the twins do but to headline a forum with "not trying" is absurd. Even philly fans are not this negative.

Originally Posted by jokin

Obviously, someone, or someones, are expendable, or in Doumit's case, possibly tradeable.

So your response to "We have too many question marks at catcher!" is "We need to bring in more question marks at catcher!"

You can never have too much catching.

They should invite 34 of them to camp.

Originally Posted by jokin

Don't you see trade-value in Doumit, provided he puts up numbers akin to 2012, to upgrade the team longer-term?

So where the **** does yet another catcher go until Doumit hypothetically gets traded later this summer? Carry 4 catchers at AAA? Yet again, awesome roster composition.

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

1.) They paid Butera. Nobody else will take on that money for him. He's a Twin for the season.
2.) Herrmann could fill in as a backup catcher in a pinch. More minors ABs would be optimal, but worse comes to worse, he'd be serviceable in limited, third-catcher ABs.
3.) Are you saying that they should try and trade Doumit NOW? If it happens, it'll be possibly near the trade deadline, and guess who has had another "half a year" in the minors by that point?

We're aware that Butera sucks, but the Twins have committed to him, and screaming that they should bring in a marginal-at-best upgrade just for the sake of bring in a marginal-at-best upgrade is pointless.

1) As many have pointed out in the discussion of money management, the 700K committed to Butera is chump change. You are correct, no one else will take on that money, you can use him at the major league level or Rochester. That the Twins were willing to re-sign him and give him a raise demonstrates that the Twins aren't trying very hard to send the message about improvements.

2) You again answered your own point about the downside and potential pitfalls in calling up and relying on someone too soon. Herrmann would best benefit getting as many PAs and caught games as possible, not riding the Twins bench.

3) The Rays are reported to be shopping Ryan Roberts, now. Sean Rodriguez has been demoted to a utility role and the Rays have a young prospect biting at the bit. This is but one team's scenario at bolstering the Twins infield.