Sinker: Why The Twins Will Stink

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Originally Posted by jokin

That's what the apologists doniti't seem to register. Baseball does have oodles of possible outcomes along the Bell Curve. I'm sure you've watched as much baseball as me, and every single year, there are multiple instances of witnessing events that you've never seen before. Deduno could easily be a one-year wonder who captures lightning in a bottle. RA Dickey was an afterthought to virtually the entire cast of MLB teams back in 2009 and now he's a Cy Young winner in his late 30s. If Deduno or Hendriks or, even Hermsen, for heaven' sake, somehow caught fire, the rankest cynics on TD would love to be completely wrong and they would be pulling just as hard as the apologists for a Worst-to-First run like 90-91.

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Come April 1st, i will keep the makings of a crow sandwich handy, i happy last year to admitt that lil Ben was better then i thought...
Im always happy to be wrong about twins players i think are worthless....With that in mind , im hoping to be wrong about Correia, Butrea,Robertson,florimon and Blackburn this year

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Originally Posted by 70charger

The front office is actively sabotaging the team? Do you also believe that the moon landing was done in a studio in New Mexico?

Your post is bad, and you should feel bad.

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You say sabotaging. I say don't care, maybe they care more about the 30M in the pockets and another high draft pick. It's all about a bright future but pay the price now. Every day is a bad day when Twins lose and a happy one when they win for me. Hope you have a good day!

I'm bookmarking a number of threads to reopen in October.

We can all review them to determine who is a real "fan".

Time to quit arguing over how dismal this team is -- or will be -- time for pitchers and catchers to report. Then we can all see whether the optimists were right or whether the "nattering nabobs of negativism" (of which I'm one) should keep nattering.

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Originally Posted by JB_Iowa

I'm bookmarking a number of threads to reopen in October.... Then we can all see whether the optimists were right or whether the "nattering nabobs of negativism" (of which I'm one) should keep nattering.

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If the nabobs are right, a quick revisit at the end of May could be long enough to wait.

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Originally Posted by LoganJones

Lots of 'boo-hoo' in that article. There is seriously no point to following something that makes you miserable.

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Yeah....ignore him! That'll show em!

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Originally Posted by jokin

Baseball does have oodles of possible outcomes along the Bell Curve. I'm sure you've watched as much baseball as me, and every single year, there are multiple instances of witnessing events that you've never seen before. Deduno could easily be a one-year wonder who captures lightning in a bottle.

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The bell curve is shaped the way it is for a reason. Yes, someone will likely be a one-year wonder; the odds that it's specifically Deduno are not so "easily" seen.

Saying Deduno could easily be the one to break out is along the same lines as saying the Twins either will, or won't, win the World Series in 2013, therefore the odds must be 50-50 on either outcome.

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Originally Posted by crarko

Who here remembers 1982, and the surrounding years? Then you've seen this all before, and lived to tell the tale.

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Dont mean we have to like it or accept it ....kind of like asking who remembers the flood of 69 or 2011....most remember , but those who do remember dont want it to happen again...=)

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Originally Posted by LimestoneBaggy

This team has hope, but it's a fair assessment to be upset (from a fan's perspective) about some decisions and what the fan base was fed. I think this team has a chance to contend, with a bunch of breaks, but it depends upon a lot of good breaks and statistical breaks (or suprise performances). It can be done, much like proclaiming "So you're saying there's a chance?"

Go Glunn/Go Twins!

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i totally agree we need some breaks, Verlander,Miggy fielder,konerko Peavey ,Shields all to break there leggs , then we have a shot..
But probally not a good shot

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Originally Posted by birdwatcher

Here's why I believe Howard should be slightly more optimistic:


1. The team'll probably go something like 78-85, but that means that, game to game, we'll have a better chance to witness a victory. Now, that's not good enough for some, and that's understandable. Most of us are quite tolerant of each other's thinking. But for me and many others, that improvement would be meaningful. Now, it may not happen. OK, jokin? You can be pessimistic. It's OK. Just try not to be snotty and mean about it.

2. The team will be more fun to watch.

To back up my first point:

1. Anything is better than last year, including and especially the starting pitching, which, in my opinion, may be just a tad better than what the consensus believes. I base that on the health of Gibson and Pelfry and the expectation that Diamond, Hendriks, and Worley all come to work healthy. Florimon and Dozier will be decent up the middle. Hicks will be OK at the plate and stellar in center. Parmelee will be better defensively than many people think, in line with his past history in right field. Morneau appears to be healthy, as does everyone else. Plouffe is more likely to improve than not, defensively especially. Gardy can't possibly manage as poorly as he did last year. He had a bad year, like many players. I anticipate better energy from the field staff.

2. Hicks, Arcia, Gibson, a healthy Morneau, an improved Hendriks, better defense overall, intrigue at the trade deadline, maybe some nice surprises by guys like Benson Dozier, Robertson, and then, so much to watch for ithe minors.

So, while my expectations are rather modest I believe, I'm going to have fun watching this team play baseball in 2013.

By the way, jokin, what's the opposite of an apologist?

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Pssst dont be a Bogart , pass it =)

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Originally Posted by johnnydakota

i totally agree we need some breaks, Verlander,Miggy fielder,konerko Peavey ,Shields all to break there leggs , then we have a shot..
But probally not a good shot

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Well, the Twins could hire a leg-breaker, but I'm afraid that would push them over budget.

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Originally Posted by panolo

Even though we won't be competitive there are still many things I look forward to watching and see develop. And if by some stroke of luck we do compete this year than it's a bonus for me.

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This right here. I'm certainly going to continue to express my discontent when i disagree with the actions or lack thereof of the FO, but at the end of the day i'm still going to be watching and happy for baseball season.

I have a lot of friends who aren't serious fans and they often ask me how I managed to watch or listen to 100-120+ games the last two years. I always tell them that even if it is a terrible loss, there is a high likelihood that some good or entertaining things are gonna happen. Whether it be a sweet hit, a great catch, Nick Punto diving into first base, whatever. And even if it's one of those games where everything goes wrong, it's still baseball and I love baseball.

I think sometimes people on here take some of the arguments too personal...or conversely, make some of the arguments too personal. Yeah, most of us are pretty pissed about the current state of the Twins major league roster, but there is still some good to be had and no reason for so many threads to devolve into shoving matches. I'm guilty as well, to be fair, and I assume a lot of it will die down pretty soon here with spring training and us actually having things to talk about.

"Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw."

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

Did we switch to a 163 game season?

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163 games? kewl we get to see Blackburn pitch another decent game ,and maybe get a long term contractagain...

Not sure if the earlier question to me was serious, but /s is short for "everything before this was sarcasm".

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Originally Posted by S.

This right here. I'm certainly going to continue to express my discontent when i disagree with the actions or lack thereof of the FO, but at the end of the day i'm still going to be watching and happy for baseball season.

I have a lot of friends who aren't serious fans and they often ask me how I managed to watch or listen to 100-120+ games the last two years. I always tell them that even if it is a terrible loss, there is a high likelihood that some good or entertaining things are gonna happen. Whether it be a sweet hit, a great catch, Nick Punto diving into first base, whatever. And even if it's one of those games where everything goes wrong, it's still baseball and I love baseball.

I think sometimes people on here take some of the arguments too personal...or conversely, make some of the arguments too personal. Yeah, most of us are pretty pissed about the current state of the Twins major league roster, but there is still some good to be had and no reason for so many threads to devolve into shoving matches. I'm guilty as well, to be fair, and I assume a lot of it will die down pretty soon here with spring training and us actually having things to talk about.

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I heartily endorse (and resemble) these remarks.

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Originally Posted by birdwatcher

Apparently, being more optimistic than the insufferable jokin means one is an "apologist". Even when, unlike jokin, one makes his case citing actual facts and logic rather than a bunch of blather that really isn't very clever. 70charger likes this (of course he did!)

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Apparently, a poster can't even find even one moment for a little levity. It must be sad to be you.

For the record, I have submitted many posts citing actual facts and logic to project optimism when it's warranted- even you would have to admit that the opportunities to post in such a manner have been severely limited the last few years.

To further that thought; I believe it was you who had faith that TR was going to take advantage of his experience and favorable payroll situation to make an offseason fix to the SP staff, similar to the fixes he employed to the RPs and field lineup in the 2011 offseason. You have gone on record on more than one occasion, stating that his efforts haven't met up to your expectations.

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Originally Posted by Bombo Rivera

That is probably the right attitude to have going into this season. But it sure is fun to complain about the seemingly lack of improvement that the teams appears to have this off-season.

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I guess I look at it a little different. I'm pretty excited about some of the things that are setting up to play out in the next year or two. I was born in the 70's and my first memories were in the early to mid 80's and seeing things like Kirby's infectious smile are drilled into my knoggin. I'm fine with all the moves, or lack there of, that happened this off season. Sure I think they could have done more however I think that it sets things up to get us some of the younger guys to the big leagues sooner and show what they have. When we start winning again it will be because of the home grown talent we cultivated or used to acquire other talent.

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Originally Posted by Top Gun

"Now there's no more oak oppression,
For they passed a noble law,
And the trees are all kept equal
By hatchet, axe, and saw."

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I know that one... "Trees" by Rush... Album Hemispheres 1978... Lyrics by Neil Peart... I didn't even have to Google it.

Back to the discussion.

The thing I like about Jokin is this:

He gives me things to google cuz I have to trace down a bunch of his references... There is value in that!!! and Jokin I do appreciate it.

I think Howard nails it when he talks about how building for the future is great, but refusing to build a birdge to the future is hard to accept or justify.

The Twins have money to spend. They are in the weakest division in baseball. We may be a ways off from being a legit threat to win it all, but I think another solid starter and a competent middle infielder or two could have given us a shot to hang in the division race for a while with an outside chance to win it if some things broke our way.

But as I look at the roster now, I see a 70-75 win team.