Article: Inefficient Managing of "Dollars and Years"

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Originally Posted by Willihammer

I don't know how they're arriving at a run value. All I'm looking at is simple: total inzone and out of zone plays over innings, and scaling to 1500 innings.

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Since you appear to be advocating best bat possible for short than why not Doumit for SS? Since Doumit is a better LF than Willingham, Willingham to short and Doumit to left. Beloit moved Sano to third rather than short because of defense. Under your theory of having better defenders on the outside, that would appear to be a mistake as his replacements did not hit nearly as well as he did. Point really being you have to balance the defense with the offense. Yes it is putrid to have a .600 ops guy at short but there is a balance point somewhere with defense and offensive skills. Hanly has superior offensive skills that more than balance the defense as did Jeter in his younger days.

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

The last three big ST battles we had...or at least that I can remember:

2008 ST battle for CF: When Gomez 'won' the CF battle, Span had better numbers.
2010 ST battle for 3B: Harris out played Punto. Punto won. You remember. Punto is my starting shortstop (Twins trade for Hardy)...um, okay, Punto is my starting 2B (Twins sign Hudson)...um, ok Punto and Harris will battle for 3B. Oh, surprise surprise, Punto 'wins'
2011 rotation battle with supposedly six quality starters but only 5 spots. The guy who had the best ST ERA (Slowey) was the one who ended up out of the rotation.

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You forgot about last year's battle for 3B. Luke Hughes "won" and started at 3rd. But as soon as he struggled he was DFA'd and Plouffe became the starting 3B man despite a worse than Butera BAVG.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

Since you appear to be advocating best bat possible for short than why not Doumit for SS? Since Doumit is a better LF than Willingham, Willingham to short and Doumit to left. Beloit moved Sano to third rather than short because of defense. Under your theory of having better defenders on the outside, that would appear to be a mistake as his replacements did not hit nearly as well as he did. Point really being you have to balance the defense with the offense. Yes it is putrid to have a .600 ops guy at short but there is a balance point somewhere with defense and offensive skills. Hanly has superior offensive skills that more than balance the defense as did Jeter in his younger days.

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That's not what he meant and you know it.

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Originally Posted by Kwak

You forgot about last year's battle for 3B. Luke Hughes "won" and started at 3rd. But as soon as he struggled he was DFA'd and Plouffe became the starting 3B man despite a worse than Butera BAVG.

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Luke Hughes played 4 games for the Twins last year and never started at 3B

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Originally Posted by Willihammer

That's what I thought would be the case before I cracked into some numbers. You can look at the data for 2010-2012 players here (min 1000 Innings): https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B5pI...it?usp=sharing

Although SS will have more balls hit to him, there is just as much variation from the mean in terms of balls fielded, as with LF. This is the case whether or not you include out of zone balls in your totals. (Previously I just looked at in-zone opps and plays made).

For LFers:


For SSs:


When you think about it, its not surprising. IN today's game, Brett Gardner, Ben Revere and Juan Pierre are playing in the corners. Meanwhile Derek Jeter, Ricky Weeks, and Dan Uggla have MI jobs. Things have leveled out.

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I appreciate your work on this, but I can't agree with your conclusions. Interesting take though.

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Originally Posted by edavis0308

That's not what he meant and you know it.

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If I had a nickel for every time that was thought or stated in response to an ol'nurse post.....

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Originally Posted by Han Joelo

I agree with you, Roger, 100 percent. I tortured myself reading the Correia comments yesterday, and was kind of dismayed. Thanks Logan for fighting the good fight, but apparently at TD, one man's vitriol is another man's snark.

All this angst over such minutiae! I hope they need the saved money for a big mid season trade.

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so the saved money is for a midseason trade? as in we will have to acquire a player who is paid so much we will need an extra 20 million to pay half his salary, or we are going to throw in an extra 20 mil. plus a prospect?

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Originally Posted by LoganJones

If we buy the idea that Ronny Cedeno is suddenly getting better at hitting, just kinda out of the blue, then we also have to consider the idea that Florimon can get better with some time. The reason I'm not jumping off the Correia cliff is that I see him as a worthy upgrade over what the Twins had to offer. Cedeno & Johnson? Not true upgrades. If they'd signed Johnson, I would have been cool with it, as he's likely to hit some key homers. Cedeno would have mystified me since they already have him in Florimon.

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I havent looked at cedeno,or johnsons stats, but im guessing they hit better then the .220 florimon did...

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Originally Posted by edavis0308

That's not what he meant and you know it.

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He in his original post is claiming that corner defense is more important because the damage done by having lesser players in those roles is worse than having less of a glove at shortstop. If indeed the shortstop position can be manned by a poor defensive player to get the best bat possible then the current best bat on the Twins is Doumit. Please try to tell me among the bench players there is a better bat without a position. If his solution to the current Twins dilemma is to get as good as bat as possible given the current state of the Twins and Rochester rosters there wouldn't be many options. That he justifies it with Ben Revere as a corner outfielder because of his defense ignores the fact that one of the two center fielders had to play right.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

He in his original post is claiming that corner defense is more important because the damage done by having lesser players in those roles is worse than having less of a glove at shortstop. If indeed the shortstop position can be manned by a poor defensive player to get the best bat possible then the current best bat on the Twins is Doumit. Please try to tell me among the bench players there is a better bat without a position. If his solution to the current Twins dilemma is to get as good as bat as possible given the current state of the Twins and Rochester rosters there wouldn't be many options.

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So your point is we should play a pitcher at center! Butera should be a starting pitcher! Morneau starts at short! We get your nonsensical argument but if you're going to be dense enough to not think he was limiting his argument to only players that are only classified at each given position, albeit the below average players both offensive and defensively, then.. well....grow up.

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Originally Posted by jokin

If I had a nickel for every time that was thought or stated in response to an ol'nurse post.....

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If I had a nickel for every time you have been petty or rude.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

If I had a nickel for every time you have been petty or rude.

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Nurse refers to someone else as rude.

DRINK!!!

Indians signed RHP Matt Capps to a minor league contract with an invitation to spring training.

Capps earned $4.5 million with the Twins last season while posting a 3.68 ERA and 18/4 K/BB ratio over 29 1/3 innings. The 29-year-old right-hander was limited to just three appearances after the All-Star break due to shoulder issues, but he should have a good chance to win a bullpen spot with the Indians if he's healthy.

Capps is another 4M loss for the Twins and I bet he will be better this year.

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Originally Posted by Winston Smith

TR has stated in the last week that he fully expects to compete and be a contender into the fall. He clearly either thinks 20m of payroll in hand isn't needed to field a quality team

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I'm still convinced that this was the pitch Ryan used to get Smith fired and take back his job.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

Since you appear to be advocating best bat possible for short than why not Doumit for SS? Since Doumit is a better LF than Willingham, Willingham to short and Doumit to left.

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I would be open to that.

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Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Nurse refers to someone else as rude.

DRINK!!!

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Drink up

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Originally Posted by old nurse

If I had a nickel for every time you have been petty or rude.

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So says the Richard Petty of rude...
And the Ravishing Rick Rude of petty

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Originally Posted by edavis0308

So your point is we should play a pitcher at center! Butera should be a starting pitcher! Morneau starts at short! We get your nonsensical argument but if you're going to be dense enough to not think he was limiting his argument to only players that are only classified at each given position, albeit the below average players both offensive and defensively, then.. well....grow up.

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Can Doumit's range at short be any worse than Jeter's

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Originally Posted by old nurse

Drink up (last edited by oldnurse...)

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Apparently changes mind on first edited response: "I know you are, but what am I"