Thread: Mason: Correia expects to eat up innings for the Twins

Originally Posted by LoganJones

I expect that eventually there will be some people who are wiling to discuss other aspects of this guy than just his de facto status as pariah.

Someday, fans might talk about him more than as a pariah. Probably not, but it's possible.

But whether you agree with it or not, Correia is the representation of an offseason where the Twins had $20m+ to spend, one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball, and came out of this offseason with more pitching question marks than they had 12 months ago when Baker, Pavano, and Liriano looked to anchor the rotation.

Oh, and they're also going into the season with Pedro Florimon at short so it's not as if they sacrificed pitching money to shore up their joke of a middle infield. You may not like it but fans have a right to be angry about this offseason and Kevin Correia embodies that outrage.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

I say we shut the whole thing down. Sorry TD - LoganJones feels all opinions are meaningless. So....we all just agree to de-bookmark, have a beer, and go our separate ways then? I think that's his point. Nothing else is "rational" to borrow a term.

Unless.....you see that he's stick-banging about stick-banging. And if stick-banging is meaningless then his stick banging about the stick-banging meaningless. Problem....solved?

I keep envisioning Randy Quaid and his buddies banging on thier drums in the outfeild bleachers. They are verbally bashing the Indians in the beginning of "Major League I". I hope all the fans don't start the season with the same outlook. Every team will have the same record come April 1st - Just ask those movie "Indians" or the 2012 Oakland A's. The question is - Was Randy Quaid a true fan or always looking for something to go wrong throughout the season? How many of you guys rival Randy Quaid?

Originally Posted by LoganJones

I expect that eventually there will be some people who are wiling to discuss other aspects of this guy than just his de facto status as pariah.

When he was signed I noted that he has a tendency to avoid the balk.

Did we just have "Major League" referenced as an example of fanhood?
arrested-development-shark_480x360.jpg

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Did we just have "Major League" referenced as an example of fanhood?
arrested-development-shark_480x360.jpg

Now I want Burger King.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Someday, fans might talk about him more than as a pariah. Probably not, but it's possible.

But whether you agree with it or not, Correia is the representation of an offseason where the Twins had $20m+ to spend, one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball, and came out of this offseason with more pitching question marks than they had 12 months ago when Baker, Pavano, and Liriano looked to anchor the rotation.

Oh, and they're also going into the season with Pedro Florimon at short so it's not as if they sacrificed pitching money to shore up their joke of a middle infield. You may not like it but fans have a right to be angry about this offseason and Kevin Correia embodies that outrage.

Stick-banger

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Someday, fans might talk about him more than as a pariah. Probably not, but it's possible.

But whether you agree with it or not, Correia is the representation of an offseason where the Twins had $20m+ to spend, one of the worst pitching staffs in baseball, and came out of this offseason with more pitching question marks than they had 12 months ago when Baker, Pavano, and Liriano looked to anchor the rotation.

Oh, and they're also going into the season with Pedro Florimon at short so it's not as if they sacrificed pitching money to shore up their joke of a middle infield. You may not like it but fans have a right to be angry about this offseason and Kevin Correia embodies that outrage.

I don't care if someone is angry about it. I don't see any point in being perpetually angry about baseball, so I don't want to talk baseball with someone who is.

One thing I find really interesting about Correia is in arguably his worst season ERA wise, 2010, he posted his highest K rate and walk rate. He also lost his brother. Up til the date where he died, the season was rolling along pretty well. Not great, but Sub 4 ERA. People can tend to get away from the impact these things can have on a player, since we routinely dehumanize them for our own enjoyment.

Originally Posted by ashburyjohn

This coming from a Correia-apologist dating back almost a year now:

Spring Training - Game 32 - 3/31/ - vs Pittsburgh

"Valencia double off the wall. Safe to say that Kevin Correia isn't exactly at the top of his game today, like he normally is."

I keed, I keed.

Wow, how good a Get was that? Waiting for response....

Originally Posted by LoganJones

One thing I find really interesting about Correia is in arguably his worst season ERA wise, 2010, he posted his highest K rate and walk rate. He also lost his brother. Up til the date where he died, the season was rolling along pretty well. Not great, but Sub 4 ERA. People can tend to get away from the impact these things can have on a player, since we routinely dehumanize them for our own enjoyment.

So, a 6 start, 34 IP sample size is now something to be taken seriously? Just trying to wrap my brain around this sell job.

Originally Posted by LoganJones

I don't care if someone is angry about it. I don't see any point in being perpetually angry about baseball, so I don't want to talk baseball with someone who is.

.

I think you've made it quite clear in the last couple dozen comments that you don't care. Yet you inexplicably continue "talking baseball"...

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Someday, fans might talk about him more than as a pariah. Probably not, but it's possible.

I'd probably be less fixated on it if there weren't weekly attempts by the organization to sell us on why he was such a solid acquisition. If you keep jabbing your thumb in a wound, hard to take your mind off the wound.

Originally Posted by LoganJones

I don't care if someone is angry about it. I don't see any point in being perpetually angry about baseball, so I don't want to talk baseball with someone who is.

One thing I find really interesting about Correia is in arguably his worst season ERA wise, 2010, he posted his highest K rate and walk rate. He also lost his brother. Up til the date where he died, the season was rolling along pretty well. Not great, but Sub 4 ERA. People can tend to get away from the impact these things can have on a player, since we routinely dehumanize them for our own enjoyment.

Just give it up already. If you want to talk about baseball, talk about baseball and stop arguing with them. They want to vent, so let them vent and be done with it. Your arguing is just feeding the beast. At least half of this thread is about "stick banging".

I couldn't care less that the Twins spent 2/$10M for Correia since it shouldn't have precluded them from making other signings. I don't understand the complaint about wasting $10M for Correia since the Twins have plenty of cash that will be left on the table. I do care that they didn't use the rest of the money they should have available. I have little doubt Correia will be an improvement over much of what they trotted out to the mound last year and as such should not be the focus of anger.

I think there have been several references to Correia being the top signing. While this is probably true (Pelfrey may argue), my guess is that when Ryan traded Revere for Worley and May he felt that reduced the number of FA pitchers he needed to sign by one. Instead of signings, can we look at acquisitions? Isn't Worley a better acquisition than Correia?

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

I'd probably be less fixated on it if there weren't weekly attempts by the organization to sell us on why he was such a solid acquisition. If you keep jabbing your thumb in a wound, hard to take your mind off the wound.

Except it was just last week that even Ryan himself acknowledged the heat he was getting on the acquisition by backpedaling, downplaying and blame-shifting Correia's projected value as an acquired asset.

Originally Posted by Physics Guy

Instead of signings, can we look at acquisitions? Isn't Worley a better acquisition than Correia?

You'll be hard pressed to find someone on the board complaining about the trades.

The problem is that the Twins were a 95 loss team last season. One young pitcher who projects as a #3 at best, even if the trade was a very good one, is not going to take the sting away from the fact that the Twins will probably struggle to win 75 games this season.

And when the payroll is sitting at $80m in year four of a new stadium, that's a bitter pill to swallow.

Originally Posted by jokin

Except it was just last week that even Ryan himself acknowledged the heat he was getting on the acquisition by backpedaling, downplaying and blame-shifting Correia's projected value as an acquired asset.

Source? When did he acknowledge that?

Worley more than likely will be a superior acquisition to Correia, and if the board's newest martyr had been paying a little bit more attention before attempting to throw half the forum under the bus, he would realize that not everyone is "perpetually angry" and that the board could barely contain its excitement over the Span/Revere deals.

Originally Posted by Physics Guy

Instead of signings, can we look at acquisitions? Isn't Worley a better acquisition than Correia?

If we expand it out to that, which is a good idea BTW, then you also have to factor in what we lost to get Worley.

So, which is better...two choices:

A: We got a pre-arbitration Worley with injury issues and who has never pitched 140 innings in his two seasons, while we lost Revere's defense and improving offense in the two hole.

B: Signing Correia to a 2 yr/10M contract.

P.S., yes May was acquired as well, but he's got to be pretty far down the RH prospect list if Gibson isn't even in the top 10 for RH pitching and yet still manages to sit at 49 overall. Additionally, it's a two window time frame we're looking at when comparing the two, May not even make the Twins till 2015.

Thoughts?

Just a comparison of start of 2012 vs start of 2013 (using B.R. WAR from previous season):

2012
Baker 4.2 WAR (12 IP in Aug & Sept)
Pavano 1.8 WAR (35 years old, 262 H against, 4.1 K/9)
Liriano 0.6
Blackburn 0.5
Marquis 0.5
Total 6.6

2013
Diamond 2.2
Pelfrey 0.9 (TJ surgery during season)
Worley 0.7 (3.2 previous, arm trouble last)
Correia -0.1
Hendriks -1.2
Total 2.5

Not sure where I want to go with this, but I thought it was interesting. 2012 was heavily weighted by Baker's best year to date, but being hurt the last two months.

Originally Posted by snepp

Worley more than likely will be a superior acquisition to Correia, and if the board's newest martyr had been paying a little bit more attention before attempting to throw half the forum under the bus, he would realize that not everyone is "perpetually angry" and that the board could barely contain its excitement over the Span/Revere deals.

I think this should be pointed out over and over again. People LOVED these deals, we got a ton of pages of praise out of it and there was a lot of conversation.

We're just having our wounds thumbed with articles like this.

Originally Posted by Physics Guy

Just a comparison of start of 2012 vs start of 2013 (using B.R. WAR from previous season):

2012
Baker 4.2 WAR (12 IP in Aug & Sept)
Pavano 1.8 WAR (35 years old, 262 H against, 4.1 K/9)
Liriano 0.6
Blackburn 0.5
Marquis 0.5
Total 6.6

2013
Diamond 2.2
Pelfrey 0.9 (TJ surgery during season)
Worley 0.7 (3.2 previous, arm trouble last)
Correia -0.1
Hendriks -1.2
Total 2.5

Not sure where I want to go with this, but I thought it was interesting. 2012 was heavily weighted by Baker's best year to date, but being hurt the last two months.

Is it 2014 already? :-)