Thread: Marcum To Mets

Originally Posted by ashburyjohn

That's my reaction too. And it probably leaves Ryan's hands a bit tied, on how much he can say about why he didn't go after one free agent or another. Even though Marcum is signed, you can't go disparaging him, like "we thought his arm wouldn't hold up." If Marcum has a successful season, it won't be second guessing to criticize Ryan; but we have to wait a while before we know.

Obviously injury concerns are the major factor, yet if the Twins couldn't stomach the risk why did they give a guy who surely won't be ready opening day due to TJ surgery the same contract?

Originally Posted by lightfoot789

I keep hearing people say the FO can do so much better with getting FAs here. As if they never tried. The fact is no one knows if they have or not. The thread that should be circling is "Who is the Best FA the Twins has ever signed?" Then ask why? Is it management or that players just don't want to come to the Northern part of the country? Name a Top FA to come to MN in recent years? Top!!!

You can only get top tier players in MN from farm system or trades. I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong. Who is the last great FA to come here?................................. In house prospects are your last hope and that winning span won't come for more 2 years. But when it does - look out.

This is a ridiculous question - if the Twins never attempt to sign a top tier free agent, how do we ever know if one would come here. Seeing as other major MN franchises, such as the Vikings, Wild, etc. haven't seem to have a problem attracting top players to MN I have serious doubts that the area is much a of limiting factor. Minneapolis ain't exactly Cleveland you know. Seriously??

Marcum is just way too selfish for TR - he doesn't use his fielders enough, strikes out way too many at 7.9K/9. It is the same amount as Pelfrey's base and only .5M less than Correia will make this year (he will make $4.5 this year, $5.5M next year). Boggles the mind. Same risk as Pelfrey, higher reward. Something's wrong somewhere with the FA signings by the Twins.

Originally Posted by mike wants wins

I do not agree that you can only get top players here by trade or farm system. If the twins make a market offer, it is as likely to be accepted here as anywhere. I would posit they do not make big offers, by choice.

I will agree with you if you can name one free agent who has ever come to MN that was considered a Top FA. Not just with this ownership and FO, but ever? Now ask why? Maybe it is more than just throwing money to guys - Sometimes guys don't want to go to certain cities. Look how Upton turned down a chance to go to Seattle. Money is not everything for some guys.

Uggh, we paid more for Pelfry coming off of TJ surgery than the Mets guaranteed Marcum? Who knows on this one, maybe he really wanted to stay in the NL, maybe the Twins saw something in the medical records that led them to believe he couldn't throw anymore - though he did pass the Mets physical. In any event, it does appear that Marcum is another guy who looks to be superior to the guys the Twins signed, and took less that what we paid for guys like Correia and Pelfry.

Again, are the Twins really not properly evaluating these guys, do they not want to play here? I have a difficult time with that premise, particularly for Pitchers. It's pretty disappointing as a fan.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Who would he have been holding back on a one year deal? Even a two year deal? So what if his value might have been as a trade piece, isn't that a good thing?

Why should we be resigned to the Pelfreys and Correia's of the world when we have the money to do better?

It's trickle down my man. If you have guys like Hendricks, Deduno, Walters, Devries, etc. sitting at AAA how won't they hold guys back if there is no need for a guy to take their roster spot? And as I stated there is nothing wrong with Marcum's upside with us is his being spun for a prospect.

It's not about how much money we have. Never has been with the Twins. If that is your thoughts maybe follow the Yankee's Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. It's more about if it makes sense.

Originally Posted by iastfan112

The fact that his velocity went from 86.8 in 2008 to 86.5 last year is truly terrifying. What will he do?!

I'll take the guy who only may have a bum shoulder over the guy who's less than 12 months out from TJ surgery. If Baker had an option on his contract that would be a different story.

Actually it went down further than 86. And what happened in 08'? He blew out his elbow.

I was for signing him but it isn't anything to get butt hurt about. His upside was a trade chip for a decent prospect.

Originally Posted by lightfoot789

I will agree with you if you can name one free agent who has ever come to MN that was considered a Top FA. Not just with this ownership and FO, but ever? Now ask why? Maybe it is more than just throwing money to guys - Sometimes guys don't want to go to certain cities. Look how Upton turned down a chance to go to Seattle. Money is not everything for some guys.

Jack Morris, and he was paid as one of the top pitchers too.

Without knowing the bonus money, if the Mets gave Marcum $4 million, are you actually trying to say he wouldn't have come to the Twins for $6 million? That's ludicris and the players union would put up a stink if he did that, just as they would if David Price took a 33% discouont to stay with Tampa Bay.

P.S. Just read your last two lines. What did money have to do with Justin Upton? He is already under contract, if anything, that proves that he had the luxery to be picky about his destination because he had ALREADY been paid.

Originally Posted by panolo

It's trickle down my man. If you have guys like Hendricks, Deduno, Walters, Devries, etc. sitting at AAA how won't they hold guys back if there is no need for a guy to take their roster spot? And as I stated there is nothing wrong with Marcum's upside with us is his being spun for a prospect.

It's not about how much money we have. Never has been with the Twins. If that is your thoughts maybe follow the Yankee's Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. It's more about if it makes sense.

With respect those guys should be sitting in AAA, sorry but I'd have Marcum blocking those guys for as long as I could. I'll give you Hendriks, they need to find out if he's going to progress this year and he at least has enough upside to find that out.

The Yankees, Sox and Dodgers, come on man, we're not talking Grienke or CC money here. You're right,it is about what makes sense, how does Marcum not make sense?

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Who will be held back? The Twins have Diamond and Worley in the rotation. Hendriks is going to pitch himself on or off the roster no matter what. Gibson can only pitch 140 innings.

I keep hearing people say "don't hold back the youngsters" without realizing that there aren't enough youngsters to hold back.

Quit thinking just AAA. We all know that depth chart is thin. How do you fix that? By promoting from within or drafting players which wouldn't have a roster spot if the likes of Devries, Hendricks, Deduno, Walters, etc. are camped out at AAA.

Perhaps the Twins are actually facing reality this year and saving money to complement the prospects we have coming up in the 2015-2016 seasons. But at 4 million I would imagine the small amount of buzz and hope bringing in marcum would have created would have made it worth it. How can TR honestly say he isnt punting the season with these types of moves? With or without marcum this team most likely wont contend this year but there would at least have been some speck of hope, and hope sells tickets no? The Twins currently have an avid fan base and they risk losing a good portion of it with a 90s like stretch of struggles. Ugh

Improving our embarrassment of a rotation for relatively cheap makes great sense any way I look at it. It's not like I think that signing Marcum magically makes us contenders or a .500 team, but it potentially gives fans something worth watching every 5 starts in a season that is shaping up to offer very few things for us to get even remotely excited about. And as twinsnorth stated, who exactly is a 1 year contract blocking? Hell, even a 2 or 3 year contract wouldn't have been blocking anything besides guys who wouldn't even sniff the major leagues on about 27 other teams.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

With respect those guys should be sitting in AAA, sorry but I'd have Marcum blocking those guys for as long as I could. I'll give you Hendriks, they need to find out if he's going to progress this year and he at least has enough upside to find that out.

The Yankees, Sox and Dodgers, come on man, we're not talking Grienke or CC money here. You're right,it is about what makes sense, how does Marcum not make sense?

There obviously was an issue that didn't make sense to either Marcum or TR. Whether it was injury concerns, team makeup, wanting to stay in the NL we will probably never know.

I was all for signing Marcum in the start but the lack of interest by many teams made me leery.

Originally Posted by panolo

Quit thinking just AAA. We all know that depth chart is thin. How do you fix that? By promoting from within or drafting players which wouldn't have a roster spot if the likes of Devries, Hendricks, Deduno, Walters, etc. are camped out at AAA.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning. A 1 year contract with Marcum would have somehow affected the promotion of mystery players we don't even have yet, but should draft? Or is your concern that May and Meyers are going to both fly through the ranks and somehow Walters and DeVries were going to block them from being able to pitch in AAA in 2013?

Originally Posted by SweetOne69

Than you should be happy as I would consider Worley a legitimate #3.

Why thank you for pointing that out. I guess I didnt realize that when I said "sign a free agent", we were actually including trades.

Also, maybe we should wait and see him throw more than 133 innings before deeming him a #3.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

It's not about Marcum and you know that about me. It's about this entire offseason and how the free agent market has been handled. Ryan hasn't even picked up a mediocre arm. Despite having a bunch of money, the worst pitching staff in baseball, and a plethora of free agent arms to be had (some for short term deals), the most he could come up with was Kevin Correia.

If he signs Saunders, some of my vitriol will wane. But right now, this is awful. Just awful. Thus far this offseason, Ryan has done nothing but mismanage the free agent market.

Any word on Saunders? I think he would be a good purchase and would soften the blow of Correia, Pelfrey and Worley.

Originally Posted by edavis0308

Why thank you for pointing that out. I guess I didnt realize that when I said "sign a free agent", we were actually including trades.

Also, maybe we should wait and see him throw more than 133 innings before deeming him a #3.

exactly

Originally Posted by panolo

Quit thinking just AAA. We all know that depth chart is thin. How do you fix that? By promoting from within or drafting players which wouldn't have a roster spot if the likes of Devries, Hendricks, Deduno, Walters, etc. are camped out at AAA.

Well, on ESPN 1500 last night I heard Terry Ryan say you can never have too many good pitchers. He mentioned he wanted to have a large volume of guys, so they would have to compete for a job. I don't think they guys you mention, other than Hendricks have much of a future on the big league roster, so if someone better comes along then you move on from guys like Walters and Devries and either move them to the pen or drop them altogether. I don't think there is any reason to not acquire a pitcher than can help you if you are the Twins, there just aren't that many good pitchers to worry about blocking anyone right now.

Originally Posted by stringer bell

Any word on Saunders? I think he would be a good purchase and would soften the blow of Correia, Pelfrey and Worley.

Last night Ryan did say they still were trying to add a couple of guys to the mix. I'm not sure who else is out there at this point, so maybe? We can hope, though I think Saunders is at best a #4 or 5 guy. Still better than what we have though.

Originally Posted by whydidnt

Well, on ESPN 1500 last night I heard Terry Ryan say you can never have too many good pitchers. He mentioned he wanted to have a large volume of guys, so they would have to compete for a job. I don't think they guys you mention, other than Hendricks have much of a future on the big league roster, so if someone better comes along then you move on from guys like Walters and Devries and either move them to the pen or drop them altogether. I don't think there is any reason to not acquire a pitcher than can help you if you are the Twins, there just aren't that many good pitchers to worry about blocking anyone right now.

Well, he's right, he don't have too many good pitchers...in fact, we don't have any that don't have question marks...