Thread: Marcum To Mets

So it all comes back to wanting a better pitcher than Correia. I agree! But he is locked and loaded for next year and additional signings won't change that. I do eagerly anticipate many more threads that make this same complaint in different ways.

Originally Posted by Top Gun

What if Marcum turns out to be great. The Twins could have resign him to be the ace long term, Now he is lost forever. You have to invest in a good pitcher when that is what you need so badly.

Why stop there? Twins might have just missed out on a future hall of famer.

No, additional signings won't change the fact Correia is here, that's not the point. The point is additional signings would indicate you're not telling the fans that Correia is the best you could do and that we should actually be grateful for it.

Originally Posted by drjim

I think we can all agree on the need for better pitching. I don't necessarily agree it was possible to buy much this offseason. All the guys who signed for 1 or 2 years are different shades of meh.

The others weren't coming barring a vast overpay.

I don't accept "vast overpay" as fact, but assuming it is true, then vastly overpay. It's not like money is a problem for this team, now or in the future. What they've done instead is "vastly underpay." I hope all of you who worry so much about the Pohlad's finances are happy.

Off season isn't over. Maybe the Twins sign Saunders.

I'm certainly not ready to call for Ryan's head. This is what he does. He's not going to overpay. He's clearly rebuilding and has the support of ownership. He's added Pelfrey, Worley, Harden and Correia to the rotation. Gibson and Hendriks will both be in the mix, too. It's a better rotation than it was last year although I would like the Twins to sign Saunders (or Marcum, sigh).

I also think payroll should be a different issue - Pohlad's set the payroll, Ryan just takes the bullets for them.

When I say ace, It meant ace of the Twins like Worley or Diamond. Not far off to think Marcum could even be better than them.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

It's not about the offseason, it's about the thinking that went behind it. The trades were fantastic. I couldn't be happier with them.

But there is a Major League franchise playing in Minnesota and the payroll is over $20m below what it was two years ago. The pitching staff is still in shambles, the offense is weakened, and even the bullpen has a few question marks. At what point do fans start saying "**** you, Minnesota Twins" and take their money elsewhere? It's already begun to happen and another 90+ loss season is going to continue that trend in even greater numbers.

And what has the front office done to stop this fan exodus? They went out and signed Kevin-****ing-Correia. That's it. That was their big free agent move.

Meanwhile, Marcum is signed for a one year deal. Here are the possible situations that Marcum brings to the Twins:

1. Marcum stays healthy and is good. The Twins are miraculously competitive behind strong seasons from the youngsters and stay in the hunt. Fan attendance remains high.

2. Marcum stays healthy and is good. The Twins are still awful but with 11-12 wins at the deadline, Marcum is moved for a solid B level prospect.

3. Marcum is middling and has a few injury problems. The Twins are awful and at the deadline, Marcum is moved for a low C prospect.

4. Marcum's arm falls off. The Twins are out $10m they weren't going to spend anyway and have zero commitment for 2014.

Fans have every right to be really ****ing pissed off about this offseason. This pretty much guarantees that I won't be buying tickets. I'll take the free tickets I come across several times a year but this team won't get my money for a ticket. They don't deserve it.

This!

I am glad you took the time to write it because I would have started swearing left and right if I took the time to write out how barbarically dumb it is for the Twins not to have signed Marcum.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Marcum makes the team better. A better team means more wins. More wins means better attendance.

And if the cause is so hopeless that there's no point in even trying, Willingham and Doumit should be playing somewhere else right now.

No matter how you look at it, Ryan has done a really bad job with the Major League roster this offseason.

The kool-aid has worn off

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

I dont know about calling for heads but it damn sure calls for a good goddamn explanation. This excuse making BS just doesnt cut it.

No , but it does call for a 72 hour phyc evaluation in the nearest mental facility

It's really disappointing they didn't sign him, the Elbow must be a huge issue because numbers wise, Marcum was prob the 3rd or so best pitcher on the market this off-season.

At this point, might as well bring in Saunders.

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

Off season isn't over. Maybe the Twins sign Saunders.

I'm certainly not ready to call for Ryan's head. This is what he does. He's not going to overpay. He's clearly rebuilding and has the support of ownership. He's added Pelfrey, Worley, Harden and Correia to the rotation. Gibson and Hendriks will both be in the mix, too. It's a better rotation than it was last year although I would like the Twins to sign Saunders (or Marcum, sigh).

I also think payroll should be a different issue - Pohlad's set the payroll, Ryan just takes the bullets for them.

Jr has added Worley to the rotation. Correia is being paid like a MLB starter but his career profile suggests he's an indistinguishable talent from Jason Marquis. Pelfrey or Harden are both coming off major injury, much like Joel Zumaya was in 2011.

Correia could run into some great batted ball and fly ball luck, and Pelfrey could recover early and post 100 plus qualitty innings, and Harden could find a way to pitch effectively and avoid injury. And the middle infield could fall into place and Burton might get through another full season without injury and Perkins could stay healthy and Alex Burnett could post another 3.5 ERA over 80 IP despite a K/BB ratio near 1:1. All that might happen, sure. But a little margin for error, some depth, would be nice.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

I'm honestly to the point where I believe Ryan should be fired if he passed on one year of Marcum for $10m or less. That's dumb. Idiotic. Ridiculous. Unacceptable. It is not smart baseball management however you look at it.

And in the past 15 years, I've never called for Ryan's head. Not once.

And so should every other GM who passed on this deal? Doesn't the fact that Marcum only netted a single year deal from a bad team tell you something about his perceived value and health prognosis?

I'd like Marcum as well, but I think it's ridiculous to call for the firing of a GM for not signing a specific free agent...

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

Off season isn't over. Maybe the Twins sign Saunders.

I'm certainly not ready to call for Ryan's head. This is what he does. He's not going to overpay. He's clearly rebuilding and has the support of ownership. He's added Pelfrey, Worley, Harden and Correia to the rotation. Gibson and Hendriks will both be in the mix, too. It's a better rotation than it was last year although I would like the Twins to sign Saunders (or Marcum, sigh).

I also think payroll should be a different issue - Pohlad's set the payroll, Ryan just takes the bullets for them.

Just to play devil's advocate, let's pretend Pelfrey misses the first two months because he isn't ready to pitch yet. Harden blows his arm out in spring training. Worley's minor elbow stuff from last year results in TJ. Correia is Corria and has an ERA of 7.00 in June. Hendriks throws like he does last year (at the major league level). On top of that, Gibson is on his 120 IP limit (or whatever). Diamond continues his regression sophmore slump.

On the flip side, everything could go smoothly and they are all servicable. But this is a not completely unrealistic scenerio that really worries me.

I still haven't seen the terms of the deal for Marcum. I think everyone needs to wait and see what the Mets paid until you rip Ryan. If the Mets overpaid, then all the jabber in this thread is ridiculous! Wait and see what the terms are! Wow!

Marcum has something like a 3.60 ERA over the last 4 seasons. He might not be a #1 but he's a strong #2 on a team that hopes to have a couple of #3's in front of a couple of #5's. The biggest reason that Marcum was a good target to sign is that if he's healthy then it's likely that he can be flipped for something pretty good at the deadline. Guys like Saunders, Correia and Pelfrey will barely bring in a prospect. This is the biggest fail of the offseason. they didn't acquire any FA's that will significantly help this season and none of them have any trade value. The only good thing regarding FA is that they didn't blow a ridiculous amount of money on an average, declining player.

Originally Posted by kab21

The biggest reason that Marcum was a good target to sign is that if he's healthy then it's likely that he can be flipped for something pretty good at the deadline. Guys like Saunders, Correia and Pelfrey will barely bring in a prospect. This is the biggest fail of the offseason. they didn't acquire any FA's that will significantly help this season and none of them have any trade value. The only good thing regarding FA is that they didn't blow a ridiculous amount of money on an average, declining player.

I agree with this take. The Twins seem reluctant to 'game' the system in this way. Since we have payroll room, we shouldn't necessarily be trying to acquire assets to compete in 2013, rather we should be looking to acquire assets that could have trade value, and thus acquire future assets.

Originally Posted by edavis0308

Just to play devil's advocate, let's pretend Pelfrey misses the first two months because he isn't ready to pitch yet. Harden blows his arm out in spring training. Worley's minor elbow stuff from last year results in TJ. Correia is Corria and has an ERA of 7.00 in June. Hendriks throws like he does last year (at the major league level). On top of that, Gibson is on his 120 IP limit (or whatever). Diamond continues his regression sophmore slump.

On the flip side, everything could go smoothly and they are all servicable. But this is a not completely unrealistic scenerio that really worries me.

Sure, it's possible and then we basically have last year again. But complaining about not signing Marcum, with his injury issues, is probably not the right way to go. If this is your concern, Saunders would be the pitcher you want. Healthy and durable.

And the Twins future relies a lot more on guys like Gibson and Hendriks then stop gaps like Pelfrey, Correia and Marcum. May and Meyer will both be in AA (Meyer might start at A+ but he did finish in AA last year although Twins might wait for the weather to warm up) which means they are close to being called up if they are doing well.

Originally Posted by 071063

I still haven't seen the terms of the deal for Marcum. I think everyone needs to wait and see what the Mets paid until you rip Ryan. If the Mets overpaid, then all the jabber in this thread is ridiculous! Wait and see what the terms are! Wow!

Well, we know it's a 1-year deal, and the Twins have money to spend. The Mets would have to be paying Marcum close to $20 million for this to be out of the Twins' price range.

Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

And so should every other GM who passed on this deal? Doesn't the fact that Marcum only netted a single year deal from a bad team tell you something about his perceived value and health prognosis?

I'd like Marcum as well, but I think it's ridiculous to call for the firing of a GM for not signing a specific free agent...

It's not about Marcum and you know that about me. It's about this entire offseason and how the free agent market has been handled. Ryan hasn't even picked up a mediocre arm. Despite having a bunch of money, the worst pitching staff in baseball, and a plethora of free agent arms to be had (some for short term deals), the most he could come up with was Kevin Correia.

If he signs Saunders, some of my vitriol will wane. But right now, this is awful. Just awful. Thus far this offseason, Ryan has done nothing but mismanage the free agent market.

Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

I give them a pass on 2011 because they said they were over their preferred budget mark in that season.

2011 was a pretty decent revenue season, though.