Thread: Marcum To Mets

Originally Posted by panolo

On the major league level... Not as much as the minor league level. However adding Worley and presumably Gibson for 125+ innings is going to help. We have no idea what we are going to get out of Pelfrey however if healthy he is an upgrade over Deduno and Walters.

Projections are just well....projections and we can argue that all day. Pitching will be better barring injury.

We're talking about the major league level. Meyer and May were good additions for the future but I have no idea how signing Marcum, or someone like him, has anything to do with blocking them or any of these other burgeoning minor league talents you feel we have.

Pitching will be better? It can't get much worse.

Originally Posted by panolo

. We have no idea what we are going to get out of Pelfrey however if healthy he is an upgrade over Deduno and Walters.

Projections are just well....projections and we can argue that all day. Pitching will be better barring injury.

All of it, so true. And adding Marcum, as well, for even better reasons, would be even a more significant upgrade over the AAAAs.

Where are you going here?

The Twins have plenty of dollars available, have the worst pitching staff in all of baseball, and we are still(?) worried about 3 filler guys (throw DeVries into the mix, too) who came to, (and will likely leave from), the Twins as probably their last major league stop. From AA on up, there are only, maybe, 3 other guys who end up in mostly remote consideration for a future #5 SP role.

Originally Posted by lightfoot789

"Trust the leaks but not the silence"

That goes into my quotes file. Too bad I have to attribute it to an anonymized login.

Jeff Sullivan at Fangraphs had a fun Marcum article.

Mets Grab Themselves a Cheap Shaun Marcum | FanGraphs Baseball

Basically nothing different than what has been said in this thread, but he talks about how favorable this signing was compared to both Pelfrey and Correia. Aside from those two, Scott Baker was the only comp he gave, so in his opinion, the Twins had two of the three free agent signings that were bad enough to make this look like a steal.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

Jeff Sullivan at Fangraphs had a fun Marcum article.

Mets Grab Themselves a Cheap Shaun Marcum | FanGraphs Baseball

Basically nothing different than what has been said in this thread, but he talks about how favorable this signing was compared to both Pelfrey and Correia. Aside from those two, Scott Baker was the only comp he gave, so in his opinion, the Twins had two of the three free agent signings that were bad enough to make this look like a steal.

Ouch, just read the article, did you mean "fun" in the "laugh in the face of your own adversity" sense?

I'm guessing that that's going to leave a nasty butt-hurt mark on the yahoo Twins apologists.

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

Jeff Sullivan at Fangraphs had a fun Marcum article.

Mets Grab Themselves a Cheap Shaun Marcum | FanGraphs Baseball

Basically nothing different than what has been said in this thread, but he talks about how favorable this signing was compared to both Pelfrey and Correia. Aside from those two, Scott Baker was the only comp he gave, so in his opinion, the Twins had two of the three free agent signings that were bad enough to make this look like a steal.

Thanks for the link!

The best part:

'Kevin flipping Correia signed for two years and $10 million, and he’s Kevin Correia. On that basis alone, it seems like the Mets got themselves a pretty good deal. On that basis alone, it seems like Marcum should’ve had more of a market.'

Originally Posted by edavis0308

A few things. You dont have to bold and underline everything. I do agree that it is because we havent offered equal contracts as other bidders. Getting top flight talent through free agency requires you to overbid. It is in the opinion that in the past 20 years, we havent offered equal money to top flight talent. That is correct.

Aw what the hell, I will throw in italics. Morris probably signed with the Twins because he was at the end of his career and teams probably didnt think he had anything left in the tank. Sounds like a reoccuring theme doesnt it?

No more bold and thank you for the answer. You are at least the first person to say that the Twins have never offered equal pay or top dollar during the last 28 years. Extremely hard to believe, but just as possible as FAs not wanting to come to the cold of the Northern states.

Top college players generally come from warmer climate (SEC / ACC / PAC / Etc.) universities. Players generally want warm weather cities to play out their careers if given the choice. That's my view as to why players don't come. Dome or no dome.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

The best part:

'Kevin flipping Correia signed for two years and $10 million, and he’s Kevin Correia. On that basis alone, it seems like the Mets got themselves a pretty good deal. On that basis alone, it seems like Marcum should’ve had more of a market.'

Yes. Was about to put up a link and that quote earlier. The open and implied disdain for the Twins' free agency offseason seem to grow every week.

Originally Posted by Oxtung

One pitcher will be less than a year removed from TJ surgery. One pitcher threw 120+ innings in 2012 including 8 consecutive starts to finish the season. So while you are right, Marcum could fall down in the shower or slip shoveling his drive and rupture his spleen, logic says Marcum is less of a health risk in 2013.

Here's another way of looking at it. Would you prefer Gibson or Wimmers going forward?

I just quoted it so that the guys trying to defend the indefensible respond to this. It really hits the crux of the problem with the idea that Marcum is "more risky".

Originally Posted by ThePuck

The bar is set extremely low. Just better isn't good enough. Significantly better is what we need.

I agree. However, we need to make sure it is for the long run. The dearth of good, young(fiscally controllable) starters has been terrible.

Originally Posted by LaBombo

Yes. Was about to put up a link and that quote earlier. The open and implied disdain for the Twins' free agency offseason seem to grow every week.

And look, it's not just pessimistic Twins fans that feel that way...

Originally Posted by jokin

All of it, so true. And adding Marcum, as well, for even better reasons, would be even a more significant upgrade over the AAAAs.

Where are you going here?

The Twins have plenty of dollars available, have the worst pitching staff in all of baseball, and we are still(?) worried about 3 filler guys (throw DeVries into the mix, too) who came to, (and will likely leave from), the Twins as probably their last major league stop. From AA on up, there are only, maybe, 3 other guys who end up in mostly remote consideration for a future #5 SP role.

I was pro Marcum. Just the amount of butt hurt over a guy who was going to give you (possibly) one year and be gone for better riches if he pitched well is insane.

I'm resigned to the fact we will not compete next year and I don't think he brought us that much closer to competing. My excitement with the upcoming year is hopefully seeing some progression out of guys like Hendricks, Parmelee, Plouffe. Hopefully some extensive time for Gibson, Arcia, Hicks, etc. Seeing how Worley does against AL hitters.

And again I don't think it was about $$$. I understand we have a "projected" payroll and there are no rules saying that TR has to spend $100mil.

Originally Posted by ThePuck

And look, it's not just pessimistic Twins fans that feel that way...

Right now old nurse, 70charger, and others are scolding them for their unnecessary negativity and their inability to understand the vast conspiracy by baseball FAs against our poor, misunderstood ball club.

Originally Posted by panolo

I was pro Marcum. Just the amount of butt hurt over a guy who was going to give you (possibly) one year and be gone for better riches if he pitched well is insane.

I'm resigned to the fact we will not compete next year and I don't think he brought us that much closer to competing. My excitement with the upcoming year is hopefully seeing some progression out of guys like Hendricks, Parmelee, Plouffe. Hopefully some extensive time for Gibson, Arcia, Hicks, etc. Seeing how Worley does against AL hitters.

And again I don't think it was about $$$. I understand we have a "projected" payroll and there are no rules saying that TR has to spend $100mil.

Actually, the definition of insanity is "doing the same things over and over again and expecting different results". Call me crazy, but I come down on the side of Albert Einstein over TR and Panolo on this matter.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Right now old nurse, 70charger, and others are scolding them for their unnecessary negativity and their inability to understand the vast conspiracy by baseball FAs against our poor, misunderstood ball club.

Is that where they are? What with their conspicuous lack of rah-rah chatter today, I thought they'd gone to ground, knowing all the "personal insults" they'd have to yet again, endure.

Originally Posted by panolo

Not how the game works in mid market baseball and you know that. The Twins don't just jettison folks. I have often wondered why someone has stayed at a level too long and not gotten a shot at moving up. Lotsa times it's a philosophical issue and many others there simply isn't enough room at the next level.

That's exactly how it works. The Twins, like every other team, do not prioritize guys in their late 20s who haven't been dominant at any level. Ryan is not going to let Sam-freakin-Deduno block May or Meyer if he steamrolls through the low minors. You don't let 30 year olds get in the way of early 20s flamethrowers. That's just common sense and Ryan, despite my differences of opinion with him, is not a moron.

Originally Posted by lightfoot789

No more bold and thank you for the answer. You are at least the first person to say that the Twins have never offered equal pay or top dollar during the last 28 years. Extremely hard to believe, but just as possible as FAs not wanting to come to the cold of the Northern states.

Top college players generally come from warmer climate (SEC / ACC / PAC / Etc.) universities. Players generally want warm weather cities to play out their careers if given the choice. That's my view as to why players don't come. Dome or no dome.

Hey its all good. Guys around here take notice when its reported when a guy signed that the Twins don't make an offer to. If this offseason is an indicator.. the overall results would blow your mind. They literally don't offer money to any healthy quality pitching.

I guess we all need to wear tin-foil hats and believe that FA prices are set at GM meetings and that any team that "overpays" has to pay a penalty to MLB. The Twins have been conditioned to strictly adhere to this policy because the Pohlads refuse to return money to the "shared revenue kitty". The end result is that the Twins never offer more than "the price" to FAs and therefore are routinely refused by the "better" players because they refuse to play in East Dakota unless they are "overpaid". We know this because Ryan has stated the Twins won't "overpay" and that our location is deemed undesireable by MLB players (because we are Twins fans and are familar with the area).
There! It's out in the open--a giant conspiracy that ensures that quality FAs won't sign with the Twins. [Though it doesn't explain why Twins players {not from here} sign lucrative contract extentions]--unless the conspiracy is even greater to include collusion with all FAs that make it unlikely that FAs (those of any quality) to sign with a new team! This policy does not apply to FAs assigned to "The Dumpster" or "The Leper Colony".

Originally Posted by Kwak

I guess we all need to wear tin-foil hats and believe that FA prices are set at GM meetings and that any team that "overpays" has to pay a penalty to MLB. The Twins have been conditioned to strictly adhere to this policy because the Pohlads refuse to return money to the "shared revenue kitty". The end result is that the Twins never offer more than "the price" to FAs and therefore are routinely refused by the "better" players because they refuse to play in East Dakota unless they are "overpaid". We know this because Ryan has stated the Twins won't "overpay" and that our location is deemed undesireable by MLB players (because we are Twins fans and are familar with the area).
There! It's out in the open--a giant conspiracy that ensures that quality FAs won't sign with the Twins. [Though it doesn't explain why Twins players {not from here} sign lucrative contract extentions]--unless the conspiracy is even greater to include collusion with all FAs that make it unlikely that FAs (those of any quality) to sign with a new team! This policy does not apply to FAs assigned to "The Dumpster" or "The Leper Colony".

Wait until Alex Jones finds out about this!

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Wait until Alex Jones finds out about this!

kwak kwak shuck a duck =)