Marcum To Mets

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Originally Posted by whydidnt

Last night Ryan did say they still were trying to add a couple of guys to the mix. I'm not sure who else is out there at this point, so maybe? We can hope, though I think Saunders is at best a #4 or 5 guy. Still better than what we have though.

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he's also said he's happy with the roster the way it is and doesn't foresee any significant moves happening before the season...

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Originally Posted by lightfoot789

I will agree with you if you can name one free agent who has ever come to MN that was considered a Top FA. Not just with this ownership and FO, but ever? Now ask why? Maybe it is more than just throwing money to guys - Sometimes guys don't want to go to certain cities. Look how Upton turned down a chance to go to Seattle. Money is not everything for some guys.

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Or the much more likely reason, they simply didn't make the offers in the first place.

The Twins are rarely, if ever, rumored to be in discussions with high end free agents. And we have quotes straight from the brass saying they will not "overpay" for pitching.

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Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Who will be held back? The Twins have Diamond and Worley in the rotation. Hendriks is going to pitch himself on or off the roster no matter what. Gibson can only pitch 140 innings.

I keep hearing people say "don't hold back the youngsters" without realizing that there aren't enough youngsters to hold back.

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Come to the dark side Brock feel the power grow with in you

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Originally Posted by lightfoot789

I keep hearing people say the FO can do so much better with getting FAs here. As if they never tried. The fact is no one knows if they have or not. The thread that should be circling is "Who is the Best FA the Twins has ever signed?" Then ask why? Is it management or that players just don't want to come to the Northern part of the country? Name a Top FA to come to MN in recent years? Top!!!

You can only get top tier players in MN from farm system or trades. I'm still waiting for someone to prove me wrong. Who is the last great FA to come here?................................. In house prospects are your last hope and that winning span won't come for more 2 years. But when it does - look out.

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Name a top free agent the twins offered a fair market deal to in the last 18 years?

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Originally Posted by panolo

Actually it went down further than 86.

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His velocity to start the year was 87-ish, his velocity after coming back toward the end of the year was 86-ish.

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Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

Wow is right. There really must be something in his health profile. Can't believe he couldn't get more than that...

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Geez even Correia got more , and he left money on the table , remember?

Well, at least they've decided not to hitch their wagon to injury risk guys. Right, Worley, Pelfrey and Harden?

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Originally Posted by panolo

It's trickle down my man. If you have guys like Hendricks, Deduno, Walters, Devries, etc. sitting at AAA how won't they hold guys back if there is no need for a guy to take their roster spot? And as I stated there is nothing wrong with Marcum's upside with us is his being spun for a prospect.

It's not about how much money we have. Never has been with the Twins. If that is your thoughts maybe follow the Yankee's Red Sox, Dodgers, etc. It's more about if it makes sense.

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Now your telling us who to follow?
how to be fans?

I think getting away from Miller park will really help Marcum. In the last two years, he's got a road ERA in the mid 2s, while his ERA pitching at home was in the mid 4s...

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Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp

Who will be held back? The Twins have Diamond and Worley in the rotation. Hendriks is going to pitch himself on or off the roster no matter what. Gibson can only pitch 140 innings.

I keep hearing people say "don't hold back the youngsters" without realizing that there aren't enough youngsters to hold back.

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Check with Thrylos for dissent on this issue. He has a 2500 word tome on Ryan creating SP blockage all the way down to E'Town what with all the flurry of signings of big league and AAAA arms under contract.

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Originally Posted by SweetOne69

Than you should be happy as I would consider Worley a legitimate #3.

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Except for ignoring the fact he wasn't a FA pickup... good point....

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

he's also said he's happy with the roster the way it is and doesn't foresee any significant moves happening before the season...

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So many contradictions. Can our universe survive all these paradoxes? Ryan better stop screwing with the space-time continuim.

I seem to recall subtle mentions of us pursuing some pretty darn good pitchers. It's a damn shame that we have so many of them that we can't sign more without fear of blocking all of those other pretty darn good pitchers we have clogging up our system.

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Originally Posted by edavis0308

Nobody around here had any expectation whatsoever of signing a true #1 or true #2. None. All anyone around here asked for was one of the pitchers in the #3 category.

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Well, yeah, but according to Manolo, Marcum is barely better than Correia, so why bother accounting for their off-the-chart difference in WAR value (and hence trade valuation coveted by the rest of the teams) and the futility in trying for "3-5 extra wins" which is only blocking the org. from moving forward?:banghead:

Mets signed RHP Shaun Marcum to a one-year, $4 million contract.

He'll have a chance to earn $2 million more through incentives. The deal was reported Thursday, but Marcum passing a physical was no formality after he dealt with elbow issues last season. The right-hander posted a 3.70 ERA, 1.27 WHIP and 7.9 K/9 in 124 innings last year for the Brewers and should give the Mets some solid innings if he can remain healthy.

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Originally Posted by panolo

Quit thinking just AAA. We all know that depth chart is thin. How do you fix that? By promoting from within or drafting players which wouldn't have a roster spot if the likes of Devries, Hendricks, Deduno, Walters, etc. are camped out at AAA.

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Walters, Deduno, De Vries, et al should not be blocking any legitimate prospects. They're AAA filler, nothing more. They're the type of guy you use in a pinch and discard the moment something better comes along.

Besides, the Twins don't have any depth at AA, either. This is a non-issue.

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Originally Posted by ScottyB

Marcum is just way too selfish for TR - he doesn't use his fielders enough, strikes out way too many at 7.9K/9. It is the same amount as Pelfrey's base and only .5M less than Correia will make this year (he will make $4.5 this year, $5.5M next year). Boggles the mind. [1]Same risk as Pelfrey, higher reward. [2]Something's wrong somewhere with the FA signings by the Twins.

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1) Half right, Marcum's risk is actually lower, potential reward at least as high, possibly higher.

2) I would say that something's seriously wrong everywhere in the FO this offseason, this is just dumb, in-over-your-head thinking and insulting to the fanbase, at least to the only-81% left who renewed their season tickets.

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Originally Posted by S

Hell, even a 2 or 3 year contract wouldn't have been blocking anything besides guys who wouldn't even sniff the major leagues on about 27 other teams.

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Right, exactly right, except the qualifier number is "...about 29 other major league teams." When you have local columnists "scooping" the trail balloon that Hermsen has a decent shot at starting out the season in the big league rotation, you know that no one in this collection of misfits, castoffs, has-beens and never-weres are going to block anybody if they can even hint at possibly being an effective MLB starter.

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Originally Posted by johnnydakota

Name a top free agent the twins offered a fair market deal to in the last 18 years?

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The fact is that you and most everyone on this board have no idea what is ever offered by FO. You assume or heard through a third party. It is much easier to blame FO for never bringing in Top FAs, than believing no one wants to come to MN. Milwaukee has the same problem - as does Kansas City and many Northern teams. We are not a draw for young star players!! Same could be said for FAs coming to the Wolves and Bucks. Different sport - Same results. Are thier teams owned by same people? If it walks like a duck.

And someone argued that Jack Morris was the last top FA to come to MN. That was how long ago? It can't all be management? Maybe the city needs to reflect on its image and draw for FA's? Just saying. I believe Marcum just did not want to come to MN, like the other Top (1,500) FAs over the past 20+ years. TR is setting up this team the right way (thru prospects) - because NO ONE wants to come here. Proof is in the history / results.

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Originally Posted by panolo

Actually it went down further than 86. And what happened in 08'? He blew out his elbow.

I was for signing him but it isn't anything to get butt hurt about. His upside was a trade chip for a decent prospect.

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PITCHf/x Pitch Velocity
Postseason | Projections | Minor Leagues | Regular Season

Season	Team	vFA	vFT	vFC	vFS	vFO	vSI	vSL	vCU	vKC	vEP	vCH	vSC	vKN
2007	Blue Jays	87.6		86.2				82.8	75.8			81.3
2008	Blue Jays	87.0	88.4	86.6				83.4	75.4			81.4
2010	Blue Jays	86.9	86.6	84.1					75.3			80.6
2011	Brewers	86.8	86.6	83.9				80.2	72.1			79.3
2012	Brewers	86.3	86.3	84.7				80.2	73.0			80.2
Total	- - -	87.0	86.6	84.5				82.3	73.9			80.3

And, he basically has replaced half his fastballs with a cutter.