Thread: J.J. Hardy

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

At the time, I think I wrote that this was fair accomopli once they decided to go for Nishioka. They weren't going to pay for both. And I continue to believe that the Nishioka signing was more business-driven than team-driven. They were trying to expand their revenue base into Asia.

And how did that "revenue base expansion" work out again? Still no fingeprints discovered at One Twins Way, they couldn't even identify the Marketing Department stenographer on that deal.

Originally Posted by Celebrity Weddings!

Can you explain further about how this would work? I was under the impression that sales of Twins merchandise were part of the shared revenue pot, though I'm happy to be corrected on that point. Would they be able to get some more money from Japanese stations picking up Twins' broadcasts?

Tickets sales, maybe?

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

Yep, right on. the primary reasons were:
1) Cost-cutting, after signing Nishioka.
2) He was fairly expensive and coming off of a couple of pretty bad years. He was also perceived as fragile.
3) There is a lot of 20/20 hindsight going on. He was not overly valued by anyone, as is seen by what Baltimore nabbed him for.
4) The Twins wanted to add speed.

1) Agreed, very short-sighted and panicky cost-cutting.

2) The Twins knew exactly what they traded for at the time of the Gomez deal, time has proven that any "perception" of fragility was post-rationalization of the deal on the Twins part. The stats show he had regained much of his hand strength in the 2nd half of 2010. (Hardy publicly criticized the Twins medical staff for extending his injury woes- along with the hitting philosophies).

3) No 20/20 hindsight from many Twins fans who castigated all levels of Twins management at the time (and ever since). The Orioles did indeed "nab" Hardy, Smith continually demonstrated vast abilities at having his pocket picked.

4) Nishi's lack of fundamentals in the field, combined with his Punch(less)-and-Judy batting style negated any marginal increase in speed.

Originally Posted by Celebrity Weddings!

Can you explain further about how this would work? I was under the impression that sales of Twins merchandise were part of the shared revenue pot, though I'm happy to be corrected on that point. Would they be able to get some more money from Japanese stations picking up Twins' broadcasts?

I've been wondering about this myself. My best understanding is that it opens the door to corporate sponsorship from Japanese businesses.

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

I've been wondering about this myself. My best understanding is that it opens the door to corporate sponsorship from Japanese businesses.

So essentially, it's a sound byte that really doesn't mean much?

1. The "20-20 hindsight" thing is really aggravating. Many...MANY...Twins fans ripped the deal at the time, with good reason. If you weren't one of them, fine. But don't come around now claiming hindsight, just because you couldn't see the Twins getting their pockets picked then.

2. I've never understood the "Twins signed Nishioka for marketing reasons" line of thought. Didn't then, don't now. Where was this money going to come from?

3. Hardy's second half, when he got healthy and was one of the best SS's in the league, was a primary reason for the Twins very good second half. "Didn't do anything" is wrong, too. He played exceptionally well over the last three months of the season.

4. "The Twins couldn't afford him" has no legs either. He wasn't much more expensive than Nishioka, and in any case, relatively cheap for a good shortstop. They could have extended Hardy AND signed Nishioka.

It was a foolish, shortsighted move any way you look at it. Any other take then, or now, really has no basis in logic or fact.

Originally Posted by Celebrity Weddings!

Can you explain further about how this would work? I was under the impression that sales of Twins merchandise were part of the shared revenue pot, though I'm happy to be corrected on that point. Would they be able to get some more money from Japanese stations picking up Twins' broadcasts?

mlb gameday and broadcasts, in 2011 over 12.5 monthly subscriptions....1 of the money revenues mlb doesnt speak of...or over 2 billion in 2011 divided by 30 teams and a fee to the commisioners office to run mlb

Originally Posted by USAFChief

It was a foolish, shortsighted move any way you look at it. Any other take then, or now, really has no basis in logic or fact.

I think most people agree with this, at what point do you move on and stop bitching about it?

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I think most people agree with this, at what point do you move on and stop bitching about it?

This post is about JJ Hardy. If you're adamant about moving on, why did you even go on this thread? What did you think was being talked about?

Originally Posted by ThePuck

This post is about JJ Hardy. If you're adamant about moving on, why did you even go on this thread? What did you think was being talked about?

I was hoping it was going to be something new and different, silly me.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I think most people agree with this, at what point do you move on and stop bitching about it?

Maybe when the apologists stop the 20/20 hindsight apolgetics?

Originally Posted by jokin

(Hardy publicly criticized the Twins medical staff for extending his injury woes- along with the hitting philosophies).

Just couldn't resist trying to sneak that lie past everyone? I find it hard to believe someone who claims to know so much missed article after article on pretty much every source possible where Hardy went out of his way to credit Vavra with turning around his career. If it was something that somehow got past you, googling "Hardy Vavra" will result in a whole mess of links for you.

Originally Posted by CDog

Just couldn't resist trying to sneak that lie past everyone? I find it hard to believe someone who claims to know so much missed article after article on pretty much every source possible where Hardy went out of his way to credit Vavra with turning around his career. If it was something that somehow got past you, googling "Hardy Vavra" will result in a whole mess of links for you.

Ex-Brewer Hardy beginning to feel at home with Orioles

This thread is a dead dove: do not eat

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Ex-Brewer Hardy beginning to feel at home with Orioles

And the very next day (I think), Hardy went out of his way to go to the media and correct what he had meant. And as I said...go ahead and google "Hardy Vavra" for one article after another in every major place that covers the Twins where he was apologetic for what had come out being misconstrued.

You're above backing up the lying, I'm pretty sure.

Originally Posted by CDog

And the very next day (I think), Hardy went out of his way to go to the media and correct what he had meant. And as I said...go ahead and google "Hardy Vavra" for one article after another in every major place that covers the Twins where he was apologetic for what had come out being misconstrued.

You're above backing up the lying, I'm pretty sure.

One wonders if, after making his comments, he felt bad and did the political thing. He didn't deny what he had said. Those quotes were accurate. He did later say Vavra helped him with his swing, no doubt, but he said what he said and that's where people are getting the idea that they messed up his approach. I'm not sure that means I'm backing up lying in so much as I'm saying it's possible Hardy did the politcal thing to cover what he had said.

I mean, why is one quote accurate, but the next one not or vice versa. Depends on which side of the argument one is on...which side one wants to believe. We don't know which side is true.

Now, the other side:

SARASOTA, FLA. -- After a long talk with Twins hitting coach Joe Vavra near the batting cage today, Orioles shortstop J.J. Hardy clarified his recent comments about the difference between the team’s hitting philosophies.

Hardy had said Rod Carew pulled him aside after his first round of batting practice with the Twins and told him to start using the whole field. He said the Orioles told him to go back to pulling the ball the way he did during his best years with the Brewers.

After hitting six home runs for the Twins in 2010, Hardy hit a career-high 30 homers last year for the Orioles.
“I was talking to Joe about it right now," Hardy said, "and I said, ‘Listen, I hope nothing’s ever come out where I said anything bad or come out like it’s bad.’ Because like we were talking about -- 2010 was a year we were trying to bounce back from 2009, where I had a terrible swing and we worked with a lot of mechanical stuff, and once we kind of knocked that out in 2010, I come here [to the Orioles], and I think I would have done something similar [in 2011] compared to last year if I was still in Minnesota."

He sounds a bit confused there, doncha think? He SEEMS to be back-pedaling and not doing a good job.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I think most people agree with this, at what point do you move on and stop bitching about it?

I'll stop bitching about history when people stop trying to rewrite it.

Originally Posted by jokin

Maybe when the apologists stop the 20/20 hindsight apolgetics?

You're referring to the one guy in this thread who even used that phrase?

Originally Posted by CDog

And the very next day (I think), Hardy went out of his way to go to the media and correct what he had meant. And as I said...go ahead and google "Hardy Vavra" for one article after another in every major place that covers the Twins where he was apologetic for what had come out being misconstrued.

You're above backing up the lying, I'm pretty sure.

Incredible, that someone of your level of sophistication doesn't see the standard-operating-procedure, damage-control-CYA involved in this whole affair. You seriously don't think Hardy's agent was on the phone with him the second he came out with his initial comments?

Originally Posted by ThePuck

I mean, why is one quote accurate, but the next one not or vice versa. Depends on which side of the argument one is on...which side one wants to believe. We don't know which side is true.

Because of when and how things happened, you can get a pretty good idea. FIRST a member of the media seeks out Hardy for an interview to do a story. That story comes out, and immediately Hardy then SEEKS OUT someone mentioned in the story AND SEEKS OUT media to go out of his way to clarify and correct how things came off in the original story. Do you suppose he did that because...I can't even think of a good reason unless it was because he felt so bad about giving the wrong impression the first time around.