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So we have you to blame since you must be one of Terry Ryan's advisors...Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnydakota
If the Twins were gonna draft anyone in the Rule 5 draft they should have grabbed a pitcher who can actually throw heat. Not a guy like Pressly.
See above in this thread for just a few of the potential Rule 5 and DFA misses, let alone some of the signable and/or flippable FAs, most of which are misses that are clearly better than some that the Twins project to place on the 2013 roster. Rome wasn't built in a day, one man's roster spot dilemma is another man's opportunity knocking, gathering pieces on the cheap, especially in their current horrendous situation should be an ongoing process, IOW, "concentrating efforts" on 2014/15 should have started even before season-end, October 3, 2012. If they would just admit to themselves and the public that this was 1984 redux (right in the middle of a 5-year run at improvement towards mediocrity), I think the fans would accept it and the prospects would get fast-tracked by a year or so. The impression the Twins are giving, especially considering the 2 big trades w/o obvious immediate replacements for them, is Mr Subliminal Man-esque: "We're making every effort ("extra tee times") at putting a competitive ("what's that No. 1 draft pick going to cost us in 2014?") on the field (gold mine) in 2013" ("Don't wake me up until 2015 rolls around, let's see, we'll still have to pay Mauer his $23M but... only have to spend another $23M for the rest of the guys, combined....")Quote:
Originally Posted by kab21
Quote:
Originally Posted by beckmt
And they did nothing but pocket that saved money instead of using it to address other issues. Those moves would have been much more appreciated if they took that saved money and did something with it instead of them cutting 18M off payroll. So, I'm sorry, I don't give him extra credit for that. Those moves still didn't fix the lineup, the health of our #1, #3 and our #5 hitter 'fixed' it.
Additionally, you say 'The fact the starting pitching disintigrated was not to be expected by anyone.'
Really? Not by anyone? It was a bad rotation in 2011, how did we figure it'd be better with practically the same starting pitchers? With the addition of Marquis?
The Twins offense was better, but I am not sure it was fixed. They moved from 13th in the AL in runs scored to 10th, you may choose how to assess that at your leisure.
Not to mention that Span has not played a full season since 2010 with his concussion effects.Quote:
Originally Posted by ashburyjohn
I also never knew until today that Trevor May will be nothing more than bullpen help.
I just hope this thread continues to grow to further my Twins knowledge.
So when will the Twins ever fast track a player to the majors? Why are we the only organization that has to wait 4-7 YRS for a prospect to develop? So many guys go from Prospect to Suspect in this organization.Quote:
Originally Posted by Willihammer
If Mike Trout was drafted by the Twins in 2009 would he be starting this season at AA?
The replacement players were good gets, but they only replaced part of what left, not filling all the holes, still carried a 3rd Catcher which they said they were not going to do again, not even having a set OF on opening day, Doumit made Kubel and Cuddyer look like Gold Glovers and Willingham was only slightly better, Carroll was supposed to be a utility player who ended up getting a career-high in ABs at age 38.Quote:
Originally Posted by beckmt
Regarding the SPs, come on, the Twins FO was filled with nothing but dread about the strong likelihood of the worst-case scenario regarding injury history and general suckage and to the positive, simply unexpectedly lucked out in getting Diamond to be the one guy who performed at a major league level. Most fans were aware that in the 2011-12 offseason, the Twins needed to desperately upgrade the Starters from the available Free Agents or make a trade, instead, the Twins chose to go the other way and cut payroll, in a big way... and gave you Marquis as succor for the suckers.
Since they appear to be playing for 2015, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and surmise that the Twins would have "rewarded him" by getting the Rule 2 avoidance call-up....in 2014.... & then sell the public that they might be pushing him at "only" the age of 22 (he would turn 23 in August of '14).Quote:
Originally Posted by darin617
Runs don't take ball park into consideration. They went from a team 84 OPS+ to 99. Their position players, as a team, went from 0 WAR to 22 WAR. They improved their offense, despite losing Cuddy and Kubel. That was the main question mark heading into last season.Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wants wins
You realize that Mauer actually had fewer minor league games before he was called up, right? You realize the Twins have had several players go up several levels in one year, including Baker, Garza, Slowey, Liriano and Hendriks?Quote:
Originally Posted by darin617
The Twins rely on their minor leagues more than most teams so you'll get guys like Plouffe who need 6+ years before he's ready. Most teams give up on those guys. But the Twins have pushed their better prospects when they have them.
I'm not sure how much of this is really valid. Last year, we had issues with RF until Revere took it over but I'm not sure that isn't fairly normal with most teams. The Twins wanted Carroll to hold one MI spot (and he had a decent year) and hoped a guy like Dozier or Plouffe could step up. Plouffe ended up taking over third and had a nice run until his injury. I suspect we'll see something similar this year with CF and RF as the Twins hope that young guys like Hicks, Benson, Parmelee or Arcia step up and take it.Quote:
Originally Posted by jokin
As for last year, however you want to criticize the position players, they ended up being pretty good. Their team WAR was 4th or 5th in the AL (depending on which WAR you use).
I neither said the offense (offense, not position players) was fixed or not. I said it was improved, and that others could decide if it was fixed or not. I offered no value judgement on that.
I'd call the Mauer/Trout comparative scenario a draw. Both called up in their 4th minor league season, both 21, Mauer 284 games played, Trout 286. These are 2 very special players.Quote:
Originally Posted by gunnarthor
Josh Fields and Randy Wells were never an option for the Twins to draft in the Rule 5 draft. Lobstien has not pitched above AA. All other teams passed on Nova in 2008 as they all had a chance to claim him when San Diego let him go. He had not pitched above high A ball at that time. . Josh Fields has never started in professional baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by jokin
The offense was improved, not fixed, and now there are some major question marks, as well as holes that need to be replaced, that apparently the club is going to ignore and be content to play with the cards they're holding. I am all in favor of giving Hicks, Arcia and Benson decent shots at some significant playing time, call-up dependent on ST performances. Right now, the Twins have left themselves with Hicks as the only legitimate option as leadoff man ( as much a fan as I am, it would be hard watching the offense as it would take an inevitable, major step backwards with Dozier, Mastro, Escobar and Florimon sporting their combined MLB OBP of <.300 in the #1 spot in the order for 162 games.)Quote:
Originally Posted by mike wants wins
I would hope that Rosario and Santana are physically 100% and gets a call-up at some point after slicing through 2 levels of minor league play.
I wish they'd explore platooning Mauer at 3B, with Parmelee getting his reps at 1B and RF.
Removing Butera from the offense would by itself represent a huge offensive upgrade.
I hope Doumit and Willingham don't regress to their mean.
I hope Morneau (finally) does.
The topic was not what the Twins should or would be able to do--- but what was the exact "crapshoot" nature of Rule 5 pitchers in general and the supposition from the poster that the Rule 5 draft is a complete waste of time as there supposedly are never useful pitching prospects that come from it. I think I showed that it is at least theoretically possible to assemble a decent staff from scraps and certainly worth some time to explore the available options thoroughly, especially with an advantageously high set of picks (your case regarding Nova proves my point, there was something there, the Padres did in fact draft him, for whatever reason, they didn't have room for roster retention, so that the Yankees would later receive the full benefits from him). Lobstein and Lara seem like no-brainers at such a low cost of kicking the tires, as did Kehrer in the AAA draft. Lobstein had a very strong year at AA and is only 23 (unlike soft-tossing Pressly who bombed out as a starter at that level and is now projected as a reliever).Quote:
Originally Posted by old nurse
Regarding Josh Fields, the Twins drafted about a half a dozen college "live arms"/closers/set-up men in June in hopes of possibly converting them to hard throwing starters. Fields filled that role at Georgia so he possibly fits experimenting with as a starter for a team in as weak a situation as the Twins are in.
Who says that they were better? Some guy on an internet forum?Quote:
Originally Posted by jokin
It wasn't so long ago that BS made a HORRIBLE mistake trading Bullock for a completely unimpressive Rule 5 pick. The Twins have made a lot of misses in Rule 5 but pretty much every pick is a miss so I'm not going to lose sleep over it. My only disappointment is about not willing to put any money into a halfway decent FA. Rule 5's, DFA's, NRI's are a complete crapshoot.
Josh Fields was an excellent pick. Of course he was #1 so he wasn't available for the Twins.
I wish I'd said that, oh wait...Quote:
Originally Posted by kab21
Let's face it, under the current ownership and management, the Twins aren't going to ever spend money on quality, higher-end, game-changing FAs, all the more important to create and/or upgrade the means to more consistently find the buried treasure from the various alternative means from which to stock the club with enough talent to compete like the Rays are forced to do. In Rule 5 in the past, they have hit on Santana and Diamond. On the international front, Sano and Kepler may or may not turn out to be big impact guys down the road. Darren Mastroianni might become one of the occasional DFAs that ends up becoming a keeper.
If they aren't going to spend for proven talent, they have to redouble their efforts to identify and acquire more hidden nuggets of talent. What do they have to lose? The Twins were only one pick after Dan Uggla in 2005 in the Rule 5 draft. It is very arguable that Uggla might have put the Twins over the top more than once from 2006-10. Upgrading this area of informational knowledge is cheap compared to the 8 and 9 figure commitments and inherent risks required to secure top-end talent.
Uhh, no, I'm fairly certain that stats and needs were the objective criteria; the player's performances speak for themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by kab21