Jason Frasor

I have some questions that maybe some folks can answer for me.

How does anyone know that the Twins didn't offer 2 or 3 Million a year for Frasor?

How does anyone know if Frasor didn't personally select the Texas Rangers to sign with for personal reasons.

Why does a player signing with another club suggest the Twins didn't make an effort to sign him or consider him at all?

Is every player obligated to sign with us because we want them to?

Are all 29 teams allowed to participate in this Free Agent Process?

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Originally Posted by Riverbrian

I have some questions that maybe some folks can answer for me.

How does anyone know that the Twins didn't offer 2 or 3 Million a year for Frasor?

How does anyone know if Frasor didn't personally select the Texas Rangers to sign with for personal reasons.

Why does a player signing with another club suggest the Twins didn't make an effort to sign him or consider him at all?

Is every player obligated to sign with us because we want them to?

Are all 29 teams allowed to participate in this Free Agent Process?

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Any non-strawmen to ask?

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

It doesn't change that with this amount of budget space that they aren't willing to be a little more risk averse. They are playing it way too safely - from choosing Pelfrey over Baker, Correia/Blanton over Marcum/whomever, etc. They have the budget room to take more gambles and they said, pre-offseason, that they were going to be more aggressive. All people are doing is holding their feet the same fight the Twins lit themselves. I don't get the crusaders to defend the Twins from the very expectations they set out. That is 100% ridiculous.

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I can agree that it's hard to defend the Twins offseason aquisitions, but some would present a good argument that Jason Frasor is 35, coming off a career-worst season (including a DL trip). His strikeout numbers may have been career highs, but I'm not convinced that this specific decision wasn't based on worth. I like Fien and Roenicke...for what they are paying.

Now if you are asking me to defend K.Corr and Pelfrey over Baker....I'm not touching those.

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Originally Posted by LimestoneBaggy

I can agree that it's hard to defend the Twins offseason aquisitions, but some would present a good argument that Jason Frasor is 35, coming off a career-worst season (including a DL trip). His strikeout numbers may have been career highs, but I'm not convinced that this specific decision wasn't based on worth. I like Fien and Roenicke...for what they are paying.

Now if you are asking me to defend K.Corr and Pelfrey over Baker....I'm not touching those.

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It doesn't have to be Frasor. But this team has publically declared their comfort with being done this offseason. When you see talent like Frasor still out there for reasonable price tags - that is hard to swallow with the amount of budget room left.

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

It doesn't have to be Frasor. But this team has publically declared their comfort with being done this offseason. When you see talent like Frasor still out there for reasonable price tags - that is hard to swallow with the amount of budget room left.

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or guys like Marcum...

I do like Marcum (love that K/9), but I wonder with our outfield whether his BABIP would stay below .300. Also, at this point, I wonder if signing Marcum is enough to interest the average fan (unless the Twins starting winning).

That being said. I sign him.

I can agree they are probably playing it too safe. But again, hard for me to get worked up over it, given the context of the offseason.

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Originally Posted by jokin

Uhhh...."Thankyou"?

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tl;dnr

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

It's threads like this that make this entire forum a disaster to read in the off-season.

The Twins have plenty of bullpen options for next year, including wonder boy Slama as well as guys like Harden who could slot in quite nicely into the bullpen. I would have liked a Frasor signing, but it's not worth blasting the org over, Jesus Christ.

I still kinda hope we can resign Capps to a one year/1 mil deal personally, he is frustrating, but I think he could be a nice 6th/7th inning guy next year for us.

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But you still comment about this thread and bring up Matt Capps?

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Any non-strawmen to ask?

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You use that phrase waaaaay to much.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

More on base to be left there.
Wouldn't it be better to target higher skill level relievers than Frasor, Brunett, or Swarzak? Swarzak was used more as a long reliever/spot starter, so to compare him and Frasor is not right. The comparable pitcher to Frasor would be Fien. Fien was more effective than Frasor. Brunett would be more of a development player. Ryan Pressly is probably the competition for Brunett. I don't see it as a terribly exciting competition.

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How can you sign anyone when the purse strings are pulled so tight.

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

It's threads like this that make this entire forum a disaster to read in the off-season.

The Twins have plenty of bullpen options for next year, including wonder boy Slama as well as guys like Harden who could slot in quite nicely into the bullpen. I would have liked a Frasor signing, but it's not worth blasting the org over, Jesus Christ.

I still kinda hope we can resign Capps to a one year/1 mil deal personally, he is frustrating, but I think he could be a nice 6th/7th inning guy next year for us.

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Actually it's not the thread but the posters that overdo it. I would like to add a guy like Frasor even if it was a 2/4M deal but there's no reason to act like it's the end of the world. You can tell when they are just blowing off steam when they start minimizing guys like Worley and May. These aren't great players but that was an outstanding trade even if it didn't fill org needs.

I have just a simple question:

in a 99 + 96 loss team that has a 9th (Perkins) and 8th (Burton) inning guy, how much a priority should be a 7th inning guy? Given the 99+96 Ls

(in my book, I wouldn't even waste $ extending Burton - he is 31 - trade him. Get the kids to pitch in relief and there are many college power arms coming in the pen from the recent drafts. But Ryan has millions to throw away to the likes of Correia and Burton)

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

You use that phrase waaaaay to much.

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Perhaps there should be less strawmen thrown around then. None of those asinine questions were brought up by anyone. They're incredibly stupid, shallow contributions to the conversation.

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Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

I can agree they are probably playing it too safe. But again, hard for me to get worked up over it, given the context of the offseason.

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Right but you have to understand every guy like this is going to remind people of the promises laid out before the offseason and cause them to look again at the pitiful collection of "talent" brought in with this much salary room available. You could argue with the trade of Span they essentially took 30M in reduced payroll and spent 14% of it to help a roster that produced one of baseball's worst records.

Now personally, I love what Ryan did in everything but FA contracts. (Genuinely love it!) But a guy like Marcum screams what he was talking about in the handbook and other places. As did a bevy of others. I don't blame people for grumbling. And I think it's silly as hell to lecture people on having disappointed bitterness when the root source of that is an expectation that wasn't created by the fans, but by the organization who couldn't wait to reassure us all that they were mad as hell about losing and not going to take it anymore. And all that big talk landed us was friggin Correia in non-trades.

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Perhaps there should be less strawmen thrown around then. None of those asinine questions were brought up by anyone. They're incredibly stupid, shallow contributions to the conversation.

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Neither were any of the asinine assumptions and theories as to why the Twins didn't sign Jason Frasor. I can understand getting genuinely worked up about not signing someone who actually might matter, Marcum, Jackson et al, but these diatribes start to really erode credibility in trying to prove how inept the Twins FO is.

The big picture isn't looking too good right now, I think we all agree, but this shouldn't really be all that lather inducing as a part of that picture, it's pretty bloody minor.

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

but these diatribes start to really erode credibility in trying to prove how inept the Twins FO is..

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Where are these over-the-top diatribes you keep referring to exactly in this thread? I see bitterness and snark, but none of this. Where is it exactly?

What I see is a few posters here so aggressively looking to defend the Twins that they are jumping on anyone expressing frustration as if they're canceling their Twins Fan membership cards and stomping down to Target Field with pitchforks in hand. Chill, people can be frustrated and message boards are totally appropriate venue to express it. Lectures like the ones you, Psuedo, and nurse are handing out about it look pretty friggin silly in light of what the organization has said about what it would do this offseason.

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Where are these over-the-top diatribes you keep referring to exactly in this thread? I see bitterness and snark, but none of this. Where is it exactly?

What I see is a few posters here so aggressively looking to defend the Twins that they are jumping on anyone expressing frustration as if they're canceling their Twins Fan membership cards and stomping down to Target Field with pitchforks in hand. Chill, people can be frustrated and message boards are totally appropriate venue to express it. Lectures like the ones you, Psuedo, and nurse are handing out about it look pretty friggin silly in light of what the organization has said about what it would do this offseason.

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Well if you take the meaning of the word diatribe to mean "a bitter criticism", in a rather long, drawn out fashion, this thread is rife with them. I'm not lecturing anyone, merely pointing out that perhaps you need to chill over something as innocuous as this really is in the big picture. I'm not attacking your 1st amendment rights to express whatever frustration you are entitled to, just suggesting that in this instance it all seems a bit over the top in trying to prove a much repeated, one directional point of view.

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

just suggesting that in this instance it all seems a bit over the top in trying to prove a much repeated, one directional point of view.

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Until the season starts....what other view makes any sense and isn't just pie-in-the-sky nonsense?

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Until the season starts....what other view makes any sense and isn't just pie-in-the-sky nonsense?

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The view that not signing Jason Frasor isn't a big deal equates to "pie-in-the-sky" nonsense?

The frustrated viewpoint would have changed if we had signed Frasor? Signing him or not really doesn't change anything, that's the point, it's pretty meh. I'm discouraged as well, with or without Frasor, if they do nothing else I'll be downright depressed.