Thread: Article: Is Terry Ryan Leaving Gardenhire Hung Out to Dry?

If pitching free agents do not want to come here, why would Gardy want to stay? There will be options for him if he wants them, I believe.

I wrote the piece as a way to show how bad a hand Gardenhire has for this year. Pitching rates to be better, but to trade Span and Revere and expect the hitting will improve is asking way to much. Pitching wins, but the Twins could have below average offense in Right Field, Center Field, Third Base and Shortstop(this is giving Carroll a pass as a full time second baseman and hoping he will be average). It could be difficult for the 6th hitter in the Twins order to produce, because he will be pitched around and the 7,8 and 9 hitters do not seem to be a threat to competent pitchers. I could be one of the lower order could come through, but the Twins pitching is not good enough to give 2 - 3 innings a game away for the hitting.

Originally Posted by lee_the_twins_fan

If not, they're an 80-win team. If the wheels fall off the bus completely – which I don't expect given the players they have signed – they're a 75-win team.

We certainly haven't upgraded the offense or bullpen with acquisitions. I'm not so sure I think Harden, Pelfrey, and Correia will net the Twins 14 wins even if the wheels 'stay on'.

I don't believe Terry Ryan is hanging Gardenhire out to dry on purpose. Terry realizes how the Twins do is just as much if not more a reflection on him and how he acquires talent to play with.

Now do I believe he's done a great job on acquiring talent the shore answer is NO!

Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

I actually suspect that Gardenhire and Ryan have already agreed that this will be his final year, regardless of results. He'll move in to a "consulting" role after this season. I don't think Ryan would have left Gardy twisting in the wind and then not given him a legit MLB roster (and I don't think Gardy would have been so laid back about that happening) if they hadn't already come to an agreement about what's going to happen next year.

I think you hit the nail on the head with this one. I can't see the Twins firing a manager, especially not the beloved Gardy (I know that not everyone loves him, but he's generally well liked by fans). I'm pretty sure that they told him they weren't going to renew his contract, but they weren't going to directly fire him, giving him a chance to stay with the organization in another role. It's going to be very Minnesota passive/aggressive.

I'm pretty sure that Gardy will get a 2 or 3 year contract after this season, regardless of how the team performs. Not giving him an extension this offseason is just a smokescreen to convince fans that the Twins really will hold their manager accountable.

The 2013 Twins still look bad on paper and I don't think that's going to change a whole lot before the start of the season. If the Twins march to 95+ losses again, I'm sure we'll hear how Gardy just wasn't given enough to work with.

TR has had a solid offseason. I'd say it was a very good offseason if he'd chosen to sign McCarthy instead of Correia. But that's my only quibble, really. They've got $20 million in the bank in case they surprise some people and remain in the hunt in July. If not, let the rebuilding continue with Willingham and possibly Morneau.

I don't think winning is TR's main goal this year. He wants to build for the future. In that context, the thing Gardy needs to do to keep his job is what has has not done in his managing career: Develop a young infield. Gardy's main weakness, relative to his predecessor, is his impatience with young players, especially infielders. Three of the four infield spots have been revolving doors since Guzy, Rivas and Koskie left. His intolerance of mistakes have scuttled the careers of several promising infield prospects. His patience will be tried this year. He won't have a job at the end of the year if he keeps the doors revolving at second, short and third.

Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

I actually suspect that Gardenhire and Ryan have already agreed that this will be his final year, regardless of results. He'll move in to a "consulting" role after this season. I don't think Ryan would have left Gardy twisting in the wind and then not given him a legit MLB roster (and I don't think Gardy would have been so laid back about that happening) if they hadn't already come to an agreement about what's going to happen next year.

That.

The Twins were very charitable in bringing in Gardy back after 99 and 96 losses and kept his buddies as coaches (other than shuffling the deck). The changes after those 2 awful seasons in a row were very small and Gardy and Co were unscratched. (Like Stelly and Jerry were the 2 who needed to be thrown under the bus...)

I also thing that if the Twins are not respectable, Ryan will probably go away too... he is part of the mess as well.

Gardy will resign after the season and pick up another hobby (like TK did with horses)

Originally Posted by cmathewson

Gardy's main weakness, relative to his predecessor, is his impatience with young players, especially infielders. .

I don't think that anyone who watched TK towards the end would agree with this statement
Agreed. TK of the late 80s was great with the kids, not the one of the late 90s.

Gardy's main weakness, relative to his predecessor, is his ineffectiveness in the postseason. TK hit home runs both times he got the Twins' there. Gardy (with better teams; including one that had both the CY and MVP winners) was one and out often and early.

Originally Posted by cmathewson

TR has had a solid offseason. I'd say it was a very good offseason if he'd chosen to sign McCarthy instead of Correia. But that's my only quibble, really. They've got $20 million in the bank in case they surprise some people and remain in the hunt in July. If not, let the rebuilding continue with Willingham and possibly Morneau.

I don't think winning is TR's main goal this year. He wants to build for the future. In that context, the thing Gardy needs to do to keep his job is what has has not done in his managing career: Develop a young infield. Gardy's main weakness, relative to his predecessor, is his impatience with young players, especially infielders. Three of the four infield spots have been revolving doors since Guzy, Rivas and Koskie left. His intolerance of mistakes have scuttled the careers of several promising infield prospects. His patience will be tried this year. He won't have a job at the end of the year if he keeps the doors revolving at second, short and third.

Well, I don't think TR can sit back and NOT say that winning is everything. In this market now (with the Vikings), in this stage of the game (a new Target Field), and the supposed higher economics to work with to staff the team, winning is everything...if you want to put and keep butts in the seats.If the Twins hover around 2 million fans this season, it will speak loads about what Minnesota baseball fans think. I mean, I'm still disgusted with the whole marketing campaign when target Field opened that revolved around the Field, and not the team, in general.

People will readily agree that MOST of the team the Twins have parlayed their offseason into putting together a competitive team, watching what happens within the division. But this offseason, that has been all but thrown out the window (you can't spend more than $5 million on a pitcher when you need one or two or three and they are available?). We see the Royals improving and making a play...or at least upping their competition. We see Cleveland trying to stay in the game while rebuilding. We see the Twins telling us they want to be in the game, but clearly aren't.

It will be a long 2013. Gardy may wish he had taken his walking papers. But he had another year on his contract. And like Blackburn, the Twins will TRY and get another penny of work out of him before parting ways.

Ryan is staying even if the Twins lose 100+. Any new GM will have demands that will cause ownership to tremble--control, budget, his own staff and manager, etc. Ryan is the old shoe that conforms to your foot.

I honestly do not think Gardenhire is going anywhere until the Twins in 2013 are as bad as they were in 2012.

Gardenhire sure has a challenge to get this team to be a winner. I doubt they have the horses to get it done like said above all the stars got to align and have a lot of luck. There is still possibility they add some talent before opening season. My thought Gm's and Managers are all held accountable for poor performance but why isn't ownership also held accountable by putting penalties on teams that under perform and finally where they have to sell the team to new ownership for clubs that continually loose shouldn't fans of MLB should see some accountability of ownership. They generally fans are partners with most teams because they are funding the new stadiums with taxes for ownership compete with other teams. If ownership of teams was such a poor investment why is it that they continually sell for more money than what they paid. Its just a thought that ownership should have some accountability for winning too and don't say the botttom line if that was case there are some teams that should have been bankrupt 10 years ago.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Gardy's main weakness, relative to his predecessor, is his ineffectiveness in the postseason. TK hit home runs both times he got the Twins' there. Gardy (with better teams; including one that had both the CY and MVP winners) was one and out often and early.

I'll add to this by saying that Gardy's main weakness is the inability to adapt to the urgency that is present in the postseason. He establishes roles for all of his players and that works for the long haul of the regular season. His ability to adjust from those established roles in the postseason has been his downfall (that and the players inability to perform in the postseason).

So I guess it sounds like the Twins should just keep Gardy around a while. It certainly would appear that it's going to be some time before anyone has to be concerned about how well the team... and its manager... performs in the postseason.

Originally Posted by SweetOne69

I'll add to this by saying that Gardy's main weakness is the inability to adapt to the urgency that is present in the postseason. He establishes roles for all of his players and that works for the long haul of the regular season. His ability to adjust from those established roles in the postseason has been his downfall (that and the players inability to perform in the postseason).

I liked it when Gardy was respectful of Rondell White's needs to keep himself mentally in the game by giving him a defensive position while playing a defensive specialist at DH. In the playoffs even.

I agree with some others here that there is some agreement behind the scenes between Gardy and TR. Otherwise Gardy would probably voice some sort of displeasure about having to coach for his life with what I think will be a worse all around team (worse offense, defense, but slightly better pitching) than the past two years.
TR is sly. Just like when he brought up Nishioka and everyone knew Nishi had no business with the big league club last summer. It was a way to get out of that 3rd year (perhaps something might have been brokered behind the scenes prior to Nishi being called up?).

Originally Posted by thrylos98

I don't think that anyone who watched TK towards the end would agree with this statement
Agreed. TK of the late 80s was great with the kids, not the one of the late 90s.

Gardy's main weakness, relative to his predecessor, is his ineffectiveness in the postseason. TK hit home runs both times he got the Twins' there. Gardy (with better teams; including one that had both the CY and MVP winners) was one and out often and early.

Kelly had his issue with some players. Todd Walker comes to mind. There was the celebrated Rochester revolt. But several of those players who said they hated him became cores of the team Kelly built: Mientkievizc and Pierzinski in particular. TK built a complete team out of a bunch of young kids, most of them fringe players like Mint. TK had 21 rookies in 99. He let them play and, by the time he left, they were a contender. In contrast, Gardy rarely lets guys play through their slumps. He always plays the hot hand. So he's had a mix-and match, patchwork infield for the last eight years. He'll start benching Plouffe or Dozier at the first sign of trouble. Carroll will be an everyday player at three different positions, whichever one has the cold player. Meanwhile, none of those young guys will get into a rhythm. They'll struggle their way through the season on and off the bench. And, at the end of the year, we once again won't know what we have going into 2014 at three infield positions.

I hope I'm wrong. But that's Gardy's pattern, and it's not sustainable on a team that builds from within.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

That.

The Twins were very charitable in bringing in Gardy back after 99 and 96 losses and kept his buddies as coaches (other than shuffling the deck). The changes after those 2 awful seasons in a row were very small and Gardy and Co were unscratched. (Like Stelly and Jerry were the 2 who needed to be thrown under the bus...)

I also thing that if the Twins are not respectable, Ryan will probably go away too... he is part of the mess as well.

Gardy will resign after the season and pick up another hobby (like TK did with horses)

DERRRRRPPPPPPPPPPP

Hey dude, what happened with the Baker signing again?

Originally Posted by Jim Crikket

So I guess it sounds like the Twins should just keep Gardy around a while. It certainly would appear that it's going to be some time before anyone has to be concerned about how well the team... and its manager... performs in the postseason.

Gardy's struggles in the postseason is a totally valid complaint no doubt, but I don't mind the patience shown with him. As someone who grew up as a Nebraska football fan, it should be noted that fans wanted Osborne out for YEARS due to a less then stellar bowl/national championship record. Luckily, the cool heads at the top realized it was more ****ty luck then bad coaching (see: the Twins playoff loses...bad match ups against the Yankees etc). How did it work out for Nebraska? Pretty well as I recall, as they won 3 out of 4 national titles and had the single most dominating team 1995 in college football history.

Now Gardy is far from perfect no doubt, but even with the past 2 rough years it should be noted that Gardy has led the Twins to the division title in 5 of the 10 years he has been manager (50% in a 5 team division is damn good!) Also, if Gardy was let go there would be multiple teams lining up to bring him in as a manager. I sorta equate this to a lesser extent of what happened to Andy Reid in Philly, dude was very successful for the Eagles, had a couple bad years then was let go. I'm willing to bet $100 that the next coach for the Eagles doesn't come close to doing what Reid did for the Eagles, and I am confident that unless the Twins bring in Maddon, Torre or some other amazing MLB manager whoever follows in Gardy doesn't come close to matching his 5 division titles in 10 years.

Yes its frustrating that we couldn't get past the Yankees (a terrible matchup) in the playoffs each and every year it seemed! But IMO you gotta give Gardy a couple more years to right the ship with the upcoming talent coming up through the org.