Thread: Article: Twins Ink Rich Harden to Minor League Deal

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Same time the Cubs will announce the A. Sanchez signing and the Haren and cash for Marmol trade. "Done deals" get undone some times. Mea Culpa. Move on...

lmao done deals get undone some times, why don't you just admit you were talking out of your ass? And then we can move on...

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

lmao done deals get undone some times, why don't you just admit you were talking out of your ass? And then we can move on...

He mea-culpa-ed, Dave. No need to continue to pile it on....

Yeah, but it was kind of a back-handed mea-culpa-ing, so it doesn't really count.

Sure, let's hope TR grabs Bedard and Webb too. As an example, last year Atlanta grabbed Sheets, who was able to recreate his previous results. If any of Harden, Webb or Bedard got healthy, it would be a windfall.

I also would still hope Ryan signs Marcum for at least 3 years.

2014 rotation of Marcum, Gibson, Worley, Hendriks, and Diamond would be fine, with May and Meyer getting close.

Originally Posted by SweetOne69

It's a minor league deal so he will get paid the same as the rest of the minor leaguers (around $50k).

I would like to know the value of the contract if he makes the at some point. I would have to think the contract has an out May 1st if not called up and possibly $1-2M for MLB contract.

I think we've finally found an instance where the Twins' situation has played to their advantage. There were likely many teams who would've jumped at the chance to add Harden on a no-risk minor-league deal, but Minnesota offers him the best opportunity. Torn capsule surgeries are very tough to come back from, but he'll be a fun wild card to have in the mix. I'd be interested to see if he held up better as a reliever.

This is a feel-good story with a strong local connection. There's every reason to believe that Harden goes the way of Zumyaya. But, these are the low-risk, high-reward moves that small-market and mid-market teams must make to stay competitive. Maybe it's the Twins turn to get a little lucky.

I had the opportunity to meet the family last year during Harden's rehab. He was in Minnie for a family event. La Velle also reported, "Harden remained in Minnesota after visiting the Twins this week. Why? His wife is from Bemidji and they recently bought property there." Injury-prone Harden gets shot with Twins | StarTribune.com

His stats say that he's 6'1" and 195 lbs. I'd say he's closer to 5'10" and 180. It just goes to show that throwing a baseball isn't just about being big. He's one of 46 pitchers to strike out three batters on nine pitches.

Classy guy, good family. I wish him the best.

I love this signing. On a side note, if Harden can't stay healthy in the rotation the Twins always have the option of putting him in the pen. He could be pretty valuable there. Fortunately for the Twins, most of their injuries have come from elbows, not shoulders. Perhaps they do something right to avoid it. Plus, they were able to keep Radke's arm on his body for the whole season so hopefully they can help Harden. I think this is a good situation for him and hope he succeeds.

Sounds like they will be taking a run at Brett Myers as well.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

I think we've finally found an instance where the Twins' situation has played to their advantage. There were likely many teams who would've jumped at the chance to add Harden on a no-risk minor-league deal, but Minnesota offers him the best opportunity. Torn capsule surgeries are very tough to come back from, but he'll be a fun wild card to have in the mix. I'd be interested to see if he held up better as a reliever.

Good point. I bet there isn't a team in the league that wouldn't have signed him to this deal. But the Twins offer him the best shot and making the major league rotation. No one would give him serious money, but all he's really looking for at this point is a showcase. They should get as many of these guys as they can. Bring on Bedard and Webb!

Bring in Myers to and we might only have a marginal rotation but a really good bullpen. Correira is much better signing as a setup man.

I agree.

Thanks for the info, now I'm really pulling for him. Always like somebody with the home connection.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

I think we've finally found an instance where the Twins' situation has played to their advantage. There were likely many teams who would've jumped at the chance to add Harden on a no-risk minor-league deal, but Minnesota offers him the best opportunity. Torn capsule surgeries are very tough to come back from, but he'll be a fun wild card to have in the mix. I'd be interested to see if he held up better as a reliever.

I see the potential of a career rebirth as a reliever. Greg Swindell had a good career as a SP and then ran into struggles for a few years. Then he signed with the Twins and moved to the bullpen and revitalized his career. Might be Harden's best shot.

Originally Posted by Willihammer

It is a fine signing and I like the tactic but hopefully Harden's not the last. Certainly you improve your odds by pursuing these sorts with a little more gusto than Jr has to this point. You only need one guy to pan out to make them all worthwhile.

Truthfully, the odds of guys like Harden regaining their form after tearing a rotator cuff are probably lower than a guy like Deduno finally gaining control of the strike zone.

Does anyone have a few success stories involving pithcers who have pitched well after rotator cuff surgury.....just wondering what to possibly hope for!

Originally Posted by Miraclemat

Does anyone have a few success stories involving pithcers who have pitched well after rotator cuff surgury.....just wondering what to possibly hope for!

Harden did not have rotator cuff surgery. He had shoulder capsule surgery. Details here in a SF Chronicle article.
They are related procedures, but not identical. Here is a pictorial of a rotator cuff surgery. The Capsule surgery involves the tendon group underneath the one shown in the picture (Supraspinatus). There is a list of pitchers who had the procedure in the article (including Johan Santana) and the consensus is that there are not enough data points to figure generalized pitcher performance outcomes after the procedure.

Originally Posted by Miraclemat

Does anyone have a few success stories involving pithcers who have pitched well after rotator cuff surgury.....just wondering what to possibly hope for!

Jimmy Key and Pedro Martinez come to mind. Key had a good year or two then retired. Martinez was ancient when he had his done. When he came back he did not last long.

From a government research site

PATIENTS OR OTHER PARTICIPANTS:

Thirty-three MLB pitchers with documented surgery to treat rotator cuff tears and 117 control pitchers who did not have documented rotator cuff tears were identified.
MAIN OUTCOME MEASURE(S):

Major League Baseball pitching attrition and performance variables.
RESULTS:

Players who underwent rotator cuff surgery were no more likely not to play than control players. Performance variables of players who underwent surgery improved after surgery but never returned to baseline preoperative status. Players who needed rotator cuff surgery typically were more experienced and had better earned run averages than control players.
CONCLUSIONS:

Pitchers who had symptomatic rotator cuff tears that necessitated operative treatment tended to decline gradually in performance leading up to their operations and to improve gradually over the next 3 seasons. In contrast to what we expected, they did not have a greater attrition rate than their control counterparts; however, their performances did not return to preoperative levels over the course of the study.

In other words, you can come back from the surgery but not as good. Flexibility is lost. Sort of like the same thing with a torn labrum for pitchers

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Harden did not have rotator cuff surgery. He had shoulder capsule surgery. Details here in a SF Chronicle article.
They are related procedures, but not identical. Here is a pictorial of a rotator cuff surgery. The Capsule surgery involves the tendon group underneath the one shown in the picture (Supraspinatus). There is a list of pitchers who had the procedure in the article (including Johan Santana) and the consensus is that there are not enough data points to figure generalized pitcher performance outcomes after the procedure.

How much do you think flexibility is lost? Like with the labrum and the rotator cuff, the return would appear to be dependent on how much movement is lost.

Originally Posted by old nurse

How much do you think flexibility is lost? Like with the labrum and the rotator cuff, the return would appear to be dependent on how much movement is lost.

I think that it is too hard to tell because the procedure is too new. FWIW, part of Harden's issue allegedly was that shoulder was "loose" and there was too much movement. Possibly restriction of movement might benefit it. This is pure speculation and I guess we will find out. I would also suspect that it might depend on individual mechanics as well...