Brett Myers

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Originally Posted by 70charger

I'm not sure how calling him a possible stinker with a ceiling of a #5 is rosy. "Not the worst thing in the world" isn't exactly a ringing endorsement.

There's been a lot of bluster about Correia and how he's the worst thing since unsliced bread, but it really isn't the worst thing in the world. Two years is one too many, but it's still only two. And at an average of $5m/year, we're not breaking the bank, especially if you compare it to some of the other middle of the road pitchers who are getting $8-12 million per year on two to four year contracts.

I'm not a huge fan of the signing, but let's not pretend that signing Correia has broken the seventh seal or anything.

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It's quite simply money poorly allocated. The Twins acquired a guy who put up numbers that were less than DeVries and similar to Deduno, who probably would have been signable for less $$$ come February. You could beat the bushes and sign another dozen arms in search of another Diamond in the rough for less money, or go the other way and actually open the pocketbook with the obviously available payroll dollars and sign marketable talent that might acquire you some young prospects down the road.

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Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Nishioka/hardy were Bill Smith Moves...

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The topic is the Pohlad's, and their willingness to overspend on mediocrity, or not.

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Originally Posted by jokin

The topic is the Pohlad's, and their willingness to overspend on mediocrity, or not.

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They overspent on mediocrity when they paid Correia what they did

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

They overspent on mediocrity when they paid Correia what they did

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...Tell that to old nurse...according to his theory. Jimmy Poh is infallible....and got an outright steal on mediocrity... in landing Correia for 2 years.

Anyone notice that Rene Tosoni signed with the Brewers as a minor league free agent?

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Originally Posted by jokin

...Tell that to old nurse...according to his theory. Jimmy Poh is infallible....and got an outright steal on mediocrity... in landing Correia for 2 years.

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The theory was top free agents. Please find where I said any of the Pohlads were infallible? Please find a spot where I have said that the Correia signing was a great one. Please find a spot where I even said Correia was a great pitcher. By what similar players signed for Correia got a fair price.

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Originally Posted by jokin

The Hardy move most certainly isn't revisionist. The reasons for moving Hardy were thoroughly debated at the time. The FO and Gardy were concerned about his injury and Pohlad was too cheap to sign him for what he was worth and the Twins ended up with egg on its face on both ends of the deals for Hardy.

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Hardy was moved cause Gardy wanted him gone. Gardy said, even before Hardy was traded, that Casilla would compete with Hardy for shortstop in part cause he wanted speed. Bill Smith moved Hardy because Gardy wanted him gone (or rather, that Gardy wanted speed and Gardy said one of the spots speed could be improved was shortstop). Smith made that clear.

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

Hardy was moved cause Gardy wanted him gone. Gardy said, even before Hardy was traded, that Casilla would compete with Hardy for shortstop in part cause he wanted speed. Bill Smith moved Hardy because Gardy wanted him gone (or rather, that Gardy wanted speed and Gardy said one of the spots speed could be improved was shortstop). Smith made that clear.

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Wait, I thought Toshi was replacing Hardy, with Alexi staying at second (although the discussion was always about whether Alexi was a better SS or 2B). And then Toshi breaks his leg out of the chute.

There was also the fear that hardy was going to ask for $9-10 million in arbitration instead of resigning for what he did with Baltimore, which would've been in the Twins realm. Especially when you factor in the monies paid for Toshi to Japan as well as 3-year (okay, 2-year) contract.

Going to be interesting to see how the Orioles infield of Casilla/Hardy/Valencia plays out in 2013.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

If it is as you say that Ryan's expertise is scouting then perhaps the problem is getting Pohlad to approve the contracts? If Ryan knows a good player when he sees one but can't sign him then the problem becomes the money. The money is Pohlad's.

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Does this mean you think Terry Ryan is lying when he repeatedly tells you and the rest of the world that money in not an issue here? Would Terry Ryan lie to the media and fans like that? Terry???

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Originally Posted by h2oface

Does this mean you think Terry Ryan is lying when he repeatedly tells you and the rest of the world that money in not an issue here? Would Terry Ryan lie to the media and fans like that? Terry???

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When you consider the amount of payroll the Twins lost on injured players I would venture a guess that Pohlad would not want to sign an injury prone player to a large contract. Is over paying for mediocre talent really going to put that many more fans in the seats? Do you think they are going to pack Target Field to see a 75 win team? I could see them trading a prospect more a soon to be free agent that is not good enough to be tendered and signing them if they work out. I can see them trading for a veteran player who's had a down year and if they rediscover form signing them. The issue is not spending money as much as how it is spend. They are a bit cautious. A few more rewards and maybe they will be less nervous.

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Originally Posted by Rosterman

Wait, I thought Toshi was replacing Hardy, with Alexi staying at second (although the discussion was always about whether Alexi was a better SS or 2B). And then Toshi breaks his leg out of the chute.

There was also the fear that hardy was going to ask for $9-10 million in arbitration instead of resigning for what he did with Baltimore, which would've been in the Twins realm. Especially when you factor in the monies paid for Toshi to Japan as well as 3-year (okay, 2-year) contract.

Going to be interesting to see how the Orioles infield of Casilla/Hardy/Valencia plays out in 2013.

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nope....even when they signed Nishi, they questioned his arm and pegged him to play 2B...then there was an uproar of deciding it so quickly, especially after our shortstop was shipped off, so they backpedaled and said they'd determine who played where in ST (our famous ST battles), and one week into ST, magically, Casilla was the starting shortstop...kind of what we knew was gonna happen all along. When Nishi broke his leg, he was playing 2B and Casilla was at shortstop

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Originally Posted by old nurse

When you consider the amount of payroll the Twins lost on injured players I would venture a guess that Pohlad would not want to sign an injury prone player to a large contract. Is over paying for mediocre talent really going to put that many more fans in the seats? Do you think they are going to pack Target Field to see a 75 win team? I could see them trading a prospect more a soon to be free agent that is not good enough to be tendered and signing them if they work out. I can see them trading for a veteran player who's had a down year and if they rediscover form signing them. The issue is not spending money as much as how it is spend. They are a bit cautious. A few more rewards and maybe they will be less nervous.

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I think you are underestimating how much more of a negative effect a 65 win team can have on attendence over a 75-80 win team.

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

Hardy was moved cause Gardy wanted him gone. Gardy said, even before Hardy was traded, that Casilla would compete with Hardy for shortstop in part cause he wanted speed. Bill Smith moved Hardy because Gardy wanted him gone (or rather, that Gardy wanted speed and Gardy said one of the spots speed could be improved was shortstop). Smith made that clear.

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Casilla over Hardy???, that alone should mean that Gardy and Smith should have have been shipped out on the same boat after 2011. I'm not sure that Gardy necessarily had Smith wrapped around his little finger, but he sure had his other fingerprints all over many curious personnel moves, both in acquisition and distribution during the Smith regime.

Smith compounded matters to the worst nth degree with one of the most one-sided trades, to the negative, in Twins history.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

The theory was top free agents. Please find where I said any of the Pohlads were infallible? Please find a spot where I have said that the Correia signing was a great one. Please find a spot where I even said Correia was a great pitcher. By what similar players signed for Correia got a fair price.

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old nurse: "The Pohlads for mediocre talent will not overpay. "

Again, you can sign a dozen Dedeunos and DeVrieses and likely get a better return on your money than Correia.

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Originally Posted by jokin

old nurse: "The Pohlads for mediocre talent will not overpay. "

Again, you can sign a dozen Dedeunos and DeVrieses and likely get a better return on your money than Correia.

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Can only get 10 of them with Correia's contract. Minimum is 480000. To get a dozen you would need Feldman's contract. You could 14 of them with Villuneuva's or Meyer's contract and get better return on your money. At the end of the year see if there is any difference in the end result with any of the pitchers that cost more than Correia.

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Originally Posted by old nurse

When you consider the amount of payroll the Twins lost on injured players I would venture a guess that Pohlad would not want to sign an injury prone player to a large contract. Is over paying for mediocre talent really going to put that many more fans in the seats? Do you think they are going to pack Target Field to see a 75 win team? I could see them trading a prospect more a soon to be free agent that is not good enough to be tendered and signing them if they work out. I can see them trading for a veteran player who's had a down year and if they rediscover form signing them. The issue is not spending money as much as how it is spend. They are a bit cautious. A few more rewards and maybe they will be less nervous.

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You made the point already...The issue is not spending money,but how it was spent...Correia is just this years version of Jason Marquis...
and may i once again point out i said in early october once Ryan was done collecting garbage , we may wish we had Marquis back....

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Originally Posted by old nurse

Can only get 10 of them with Correia's contract. Minimum is 480000. To get a dozen you would need Feldman's contract. You could 14 of them with Villuneuva's or Meyer's contract and get better return on your money. At the end of the year see if there is any difference in the end result with any of the pitchers that cost more than Correia.

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didnt Harden get 52,000?

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Originally Posted by edavis0308

I think you are underestimating how much more of a negative effect a 65 win team can have on attendence over a 75-80 win team.

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You were not around in the days of Bombo Rivera. Gene Mauch managing his ass off to get a team to .500 that nobody cared about. They did not come out to watch a .500 team after they were a losing team.

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Originally Posted by johnnydakota

didnt Harden get 52,000?

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Do you know the difference between a major league contract and a minor league contract? Are you completely unaware what Harden signed was a minor league contract?

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Originally Posted by old nurse

Can only get 10 of them with Correia's contract. Minimum is 480000. To get a dozen you would need Feldman's contract. You could 14 of them with Villuneuva's or Meyer's contract and get better return on your money. At the end of the year see if there is any difference in the end result with any of the pitchers that cost more than Correia.

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You're really going to pick nits of 10 contracts versus 12? Good lord.