Well, he's not getting much help to turn the tide. That's for sure.
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Well, he's not getting much help to turn the tide. That's for sure.
Apologies to "William". "We've come to bury 'Gardenhire', not praise him."
I would Imagine that Gardy has been given a short leash to prove he is going to do things differently. He probably admitted to the uppers that he felt he was responsible and was willing to change his approach. If the season starts out the same, and we're seeing the same 'it ain't me' act, he probably will be axed.
Yes. Where in the world are all these Gardy supporters that "always say" that they had little to no talent?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
I love all this, "he's good with the older guys", "he's no good with the young generation", "he's good with guys who are ready", "he's no good with the up and comers". Good stuff, all hearsay but good stuff. Nobody here knows Gardy's relationship with any of the players, I'm sure over the years he's had his ups and downs with many guys, which have consistently been a mix of young and old alike.
As far as him losing the room, why? Because he reaffirmed in some interviews what everybody saw during a game? Are we talking about how he pointed out the obvious when he referred to how crappy Dozier played some games and that he had to be more consistent? Or when he had the gall to tell everybody that Blackburn just had to bear down and get it done or when he observed that Hendriks had to quit f***ing around and throw goddamn strikes?
I don't think Gardy ever called out a veteran player and those are the guys who you need to worry about when losing a room, not a bunch of players who should thank their lucky stars they're even getting an opportunity and that many people would quickly forget as soon as the door hit them in the ass after they left. If those guys decided it wasn't worth listening to Gardy, then they need re-evaluate their stature in the game and realize how tenuous their hold is on a major league job, especially when they play for the Twins!
The team should be in a position to compete by 2014 and possibly contend by 2015-16, I think they can do that with or without Gardy, I'm fine either way.
After a certain time managers, coaches, etc. get tuned out. Some of this can be contributed to the lack of fundamentals being taught in the minor leagues(big Bill Smith issue) and some is the younger guys need a different person to relate to. All in all in comes down to the improvement the Twins show in the next year. Gardy standing behind Rick Anderson probably did not help either.
Yeah. Terry Ryan should get to hire his own manager. He shouldn't be saddled with the guy hired by the GM in 2002. That guy was a moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwak
Good one!Quote:
Originally Posted by howeda7Yeah. Terry Ryan should get to hire his own manager. He shouldn't be saddled with the guy hired by the GM in 2002. That guy was a moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwak
But the 2012 Gardy isn't the same guy as the 2002 Gardy!Quote:
Originally Posted by glunnGood one!Quote:
Originally Posted by howeda7Yeah. Terry Ryan should get to hire his own manager. He shouldn't be saddled with the guy hired by the GM in 2002. That guy was a moron.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwak
The problem with this analysis about "Good Guy" Gardy forget or neglect to mention that his fingerprints are on many of the disatrous personnel moves that were made which have led to this decline- Lohse, Garza, Hardy, lovin' himself a bevy of pitch-to-contact rag arms and below-replacement level infielders that resembled himself.....the list could go on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Texas MikeQuote:
Originally Posted by Seth StohsThat's about right... Gardy has done a terrific job managing the Twins since he started in 2002. He's the same person and the same manager that won an AL Manager of the Year award and finished second five times. But if it's going to be guys like Correia in his rotation or guys like we saw last year, there's not a thing he can do. No manager alive, even Larussa or Maddon could have won with the Twins issues (injury and talent) the last two seasons. It's the way baseball works, and it may be a change for change sake is good, but it won't be because Gardy suddenly became a bad manager.Quote:
Originally Posted by Otwins
Absolutely correct. The hyper fan tends to micro-manage every move made and then views in light of their micro-management, which always shades the view towards the negative. When you look at his body of work he is one of the best managers in the game and is highly respected among baseball fans and personnel in other markets. He has not been provided talent the last couple of years and no one could manage that junk. BTW, same thing happens here, many want Ron Washington gone.
Cronyism is the downfall of many once-proud organizations, this org is still rife with drinking-buddies and untouchables (Bill Smith must be some kind of marketing genius or savant-level bean counter to have been retained after arguably has to be one of the worst GM tenures in MLB history).Quote:
Originally Posted by beckmt
What's for sure in my mind is that this is a Bay of Fundy-Tide-level set-up. Gone by All-Star break.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeviathan
I would rather see Ryan and Pohlad gone.
There's good reason Shakespeare's quote, "Past is Prologue", has remained embedded in the English language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwak
For evidence of the next hire, look at the 2 previous hires. This is how it is most likely to happen, a former journeyman, brief-playing member of the Twins, who began his coaching career in the Twins minor league system, working his way to the big club.
Kelly came in in 1986 at age 36 and Gardenhire came in in 2002 at age 44.
Even Ray Miller, Pohlad's first newly-hired manager, fits most of the description. Journeyman minor league player, hired at age 40.
The Twins would seem to want and need to hire a guy who is much closer in age to the kiddie corp which is about to be hitting the big league club en masse in 2014-15.
Now start lining up the suspect list, it isn't too extensive.
Mike Redmond would fit the bill perfectly (age 41).
I would rather see Ryan and Pohlad gone.
All over the place. I've been having regular discussion on the Twins story boards and message boards at MLB dot com for years and years and there have been many over the years that can't blame Gardy for anything. They have said stuff like that. It's never his fault. I don't make stuff up, these are conversations had.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDogYes. Where in the world are all these Gardy supporters that "always say" that they had little to no talent?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
All over the place. I've been having regular discussion on the Twins story boards and message boards at MLB dot com for years and years and there have been many over the years that can't blame Gardy for anything. They have said stuff like that. It's never his fault. I don't make stuff up, these are conversations had.Quote:
Originally Posted by CDogYes. Where in the world are all these Gardy supporters that "always say" that they had little to no talent?Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
The Gardy haters always say, "look at all that talent, he should've won more." Now that he has no talent they say, "why isn't he winning more?" Anyone see a problem with this line of thinking? He gets no credit for the division titles, since he was only competing against the AL Central but he gets the blame for losing in the first round (quick fact, the Twins avg 92 wins when they lost in the first round, their opponents avg 101 regular season wins. But, yeah, playoffs are a crap shoot). :banghead:Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
He was given all this young talent that turned itself into Cy Young winners and MVPs but he can't handle young players. Did you see how he managed one group of young players and then the nucleus completely changed? And those young guys still won? We can't have that kind of track record around more young guys. We should hire Molitor b/c, even though he's failed in his few coaching attempts, he's a winner and that'll rub off on those young guys.
He didn't win nearly enough after Santana and Hunter left. He had to play a lineup that heavily featured Young and Gomez and he only made it 163 games and he lost to a team with twice the payroll. What a crock. Then his 2010 team makes it to the playoffs with 100m contract (sure, maybe 25m was on the DL at the time of the playoffs but other managers dealt with injuries and didn't make the playoffs. Those were the good managers. I mean, look, they had to play the AL East and we know that makes things harder. We don't have to concern ourselves with payroll or money spent on draftees/development. Twins and Red Sox were the same except one team played the Yankees more and we played KC.
Gardy has Machiavellian powers! Look at the players that he ran out of town. He hated Garza so he made sure he was traded for nothing. He hated Lohse, most of whose best seasons happened to come in MN. He never gave Humber a chance and he threw a perfect game. And Slowey! For the love all that was holy, Slowey! Slowey could read books and Gardy hated that. He never gave him a chance. But he has gay sex with Punto and Blackburn so they get to stay. Gardy haters are turning into birthers.
The truth is somewhere in the middle...
The truth is somewhere in the middle...I have criticized him on some things and I have defended him on others...case by case basis