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You say that like it's a good thing. The Twins play in a flyball friendly park and possibly have the worst infield defense in the league. Groundball pitchers for the Twins are going to get eaten alive in 2013. Unearned runs will lose you games just as often as earned runs, this defense needs strikeout pitchers and this guy is the exact opposite of that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Daddy H
You just suggested that the Twins are not cheap. Would you like to offer evidence of that? Yes, that is a Covey story. This is a terrible signing. There is no paradigm shift fans could make to view this through a different lens that leads to a different conclusion. I am willing to listen/read if someone has one.
*cough*Detroit Tigers*cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksaviking
Oh, what I'd give to know what unsuccessful offers the Twins have made.
Did they simply misread the market and fail to open the checkbook when middle-tier pitchers were signing early or are pitchers really that adverse to signing in Minnesota? Are they now just desperate? Are they trying to keep the payroll below $85 million.
How I wish I knew what was really going on here.
Worley and Correia?Quote:
''We want the kind of pitchers we haven't had enough of," Twins assistant general manager Rob Antony told the Minneapolis Star Tribune. "Pitchers who can miss bats."
Well you got me there. At least their GM understands pitch-to-contact arms don't work well with a terrible defense and employ four starters with a K/9 of +7.5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp*cough*Detroit Tigers*cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksaviking
It might just be the best that the Twins will be able to attract this season. We have to wait and see how the non-tenders pan out (hell, Humber signed for less than a million, you could have had Francis and Marquis for $3 million each, Pavano is shaking the trees for $3 million). At this rate, though, I would have made a much better offer to Baker or even reupped him for $9+ million. Are the Twins basically the last resort some players are looking at, along with Houston and Miami? We should still be on par or above THE ROYALS. The money is there. There is enough to get two starters and a bonafide infielder. And we managed to trade for a few studs (not all ready yet). I think our biggest gripe is that not only will we eat Blackburns $5.5 million this year as wasted money, but do the same in 2014 with Correia, who will just be a place filler. Is he a bad pitcher? Our offense and defense will make that decision. But if we are going to WASTE -- and that's the magic word "WASTE" -- money signing some free agents, would we, as fans, rather see the Twins spend nothing at all.
Fair enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksavikingWell you got me there. At least their GM understands pitch-to-contact arms don't work well with a terrible defense and employ four starters with a K/9 of +7.5.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp*cough*Detroit Tigers*cough*Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksaviking
Right now, the 2013 Twins are still probably a better team than the 2012 Twins... By one or two games.
Sigh. I don't understand what Ryan was thinking with this "acquisition".
I would have rather had Pavano at that price, and Pavano's not deluded enough to think he's going to get a two year deal.
The worst part about this deal is, unlike Marquis, with that 2nd year attached, no way will the Twins DFA him in June if he's getting lit up and a minor leaguer is kicking down the door ready for his chance. He's probably untradeable as well unless the Twins eat most of his contract.
So the rotation thus far: Worley, Diamond, Correia, Hendriks, Gibson. Assuming the Twins DO sign another FA starter, Hendricks or Gibson are starting in Rochester or the pen. What happens if everyone stays healthy and the odd man out pitches lights out and deserves a rotation spot? Do the Twins really have it in them to toss their new $10 million starter in the bullpen that quickly? Doubt it. No move would have been better than this move.
Can we outright him to AAA to add depth to our farm system? Seriously, how is he any better than Walters. Swarzak, Devries, etc? I've been on board with TR's moves up to this point. If you've decided 2013 is a wash, then don't make this move. If you want to go for it in a division that isn't deep, there are ample opportunities to grab a #2 and spend some money. But don't play the band aid approach as you are wasting your owner's money and fans time.
As the saying goes ... it's 5 o' clock somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp
Hank! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS
I will assume the minority role here and say, let's wait and see how he does before we crucify Ryan.
That's dubious, at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp
No centerfielder, no leadoff hitter. No additions to the middle infield. Nothing significant added to a very shallow bullpen that will likely be hard pressed to match last year's mediocrity. Outside of the rotation, the Twins were about as healthy as could be expected in 2012. The only 2012 starter who performed at a major league level is a pretty good candidate for some serious regression.
The only additions of note are Correia, and coming-off-elbow-surgery Worley. Gibson may or may not be ready, and/or healthy enough to take a rotation spot for part of the season, and if he does, succeed. Hendrics has done little to give one much optomisim.
I think there's a much stronger argument to be made that right now, the 2013 Twins are most likely several games worse than the 2012 Twins.
I think you're underestimating just how bad the starting rotation was in 2012. The rotation was 29th in baseball in ERA while the bullpen was 17th in ERA while pitching the third most innings. Stabilize that rotation at all and you're looking at a much better overall ERA because so many of those bullpen innings won't be going to the Jeff Grays of the world, dragging down the bullpen ERA.Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChiefThat's dubious, at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp
No centerfielder, no leadoff hitter. No additions to the middle infield. Nothing significant added to a very shallow bullpen that will likely be hard pressed to match last year's mediocrity. Outside of the rotation, the Twins were about as healthy as could be expected in 2012. The only 2012 starter who performed at a major league level is a pretty good candidate for some serious regression.
The only additions of note are Correia, and coming-off-elbow-surgery Worley. Gibson may or may not be ready, and/or healthy enough to take a rotation spot for part of the season, and if he does, succeed. Hendrics has done little to give one much optomisim.
I think there's a much stronger argument to be made that right now, the 2013 Twins are most likely several games worse than the 2012 Twins.
This team is still bad, there's not doubt about it. But I'd wager that just the Worley acquisition makes them slightly better overall (and there's a chance Correia contributes something, though I wouldn't bet on it). The offense has certainly taken a knock and while some guys are due to regress, there's also room for improvement in some areas (a full season of Parmelee vs. Revere, Morneau continuing to adjust, etc.).
I don't buy into the argument that they're actually worse. The pitching staff, particularly in the first half of 2012, was historically terrible.
I guess we'll see. 60% of that rotation is still in place, and I don't see how adding Correia fixes any of the other 40%. Worley is no sure thing either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock BeauchampI think you're underestimating just how bad the starting rotation was in 2012. The rotation was 29th in baseball in ERA while the bullpen was 17th in ERA while pitching the third most innings. Stabilize that rotation at all and you're looking at a much better overall ERA because so many of those bullpen innings won't be going to the Jeff Grays of the world, dragging down the bullpen ERA.Quote:
Originally Posted by USAFChiefThat's dubious, at best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp
No centerfielder, no leadoff hitter. No additions to the middle infield. Nothing significant added to a very shallow bullpen that will likely be hard pressed to match last year's mediocrity. Outside of the rotation, the Twins were about as healthy as could be expected in 2012. The only 2012 starter who performed at a major league level is a pretty good candidate for some serious regression.
The only additions of note are Correia, and coming-off-elbow-surgery Worley. Gibson may or may not be ready, and/or healthy enough to take a rotation spot for part of the season, and if he does, succeed. Hendrics has done little to give one much optomisim.
I think there's a much stronger argument to be made that right now, the 2013 Twins are most likely several games worse than the 2012 Twins.
This team is still bad, there's not doubt about it. But I'd wager that just the Worley acquisition makes them slightly better overall (and there's a chance Correia contributes something, though I wouldn't bet on it). The offense has certainly taken a knock and while some guys are due to regress, there's also room for improvement in some areas (a full season of Parmelee vs. Revere, Morneau continuing to adjust, etc.).
I don't buy into the argument that they're actually worse. The pitching staff, particularly in the first half of 2012, was historically terrible.
im also of the opinion the Twins are done adding FA starters, so there's that.
This just makes no sense. Why not just go with Deduno, DeVries or even Blackburn. Correia is very much like Blackburn. So 10 million this year for bad pitchers Blackburn and Correia. And another wasted 5 million next year.
I don't think people understand just how badthis offense could be.
Very difficult to see an upside here. Deduno would be more interesting.
This is the pipe dream people continue to cling to, that 2014 means anything. It's been clear for several weeks now that 2015 is the target date for serious contention. 2014 is when the team turns the corner, but should not be expected to really go places quite yet. 2013 is all about laying groundwork where it is possible, and otherwise riding it out with as presentable a team as possible. Two-year signings (and guys such as Willingham who will be with us in that period) will make sense in this last light, and have no bearing on the real story of 2015.Quote:
Originally Posted by drivlikejehu
I'm not thrilled with Correia, as I was hoping for somewhat better "hold the fort" signings, but ultimately the $10M spent will not hold the team back in either year.
That one goes into my quotes file. Thanks.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp