No, his numbers don't scream any such thing. Even a cursory look at his ERA compared to the NL average would tell you as much.
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No, his numbers don't scream any such thing. Even a cursory look at his ERA compared to the NL average would tell you as much.
I expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp
The Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverbrian
With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.
I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.
And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.
Thank You Puck... Terry Ryan once ran directly at a Mountain Lion that had me cornered. I've had his back ever since.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
Seriously... This ain't so much defense of TR... It's more like balance... Correia is being over cooked here. I've spent a lot of time on this site and I appreciate all the posters but I've detected a slight glimpse of embellishment and emotion from time to time. Or maybe that's just me.
Yeah... That's kinda my point... But we have posters here who are calling this signing Blackburn esque. I was pointing out that... that is embellishment at a fairly large degree.Quote:
Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouseGood for Correia that he wasn't capable of the other worldly and historically colossal decrepitude that Nick Blackburn is. For a metaphorical visual of that comparison, a 4 looks a lot sexier when standing next to a 1....and yet it's still a 4.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverbrianBlackburn gave up 81 runs in 2012... Correia gave up 80 and Marquis gave up 74 in 127.2 innings between Minnesota and San Diego.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock Beauchamp
Blackburn pitched 98.2 innings and Correia threw 171 innings. If posters want to cry Blackburn with this signing... Please don't ignore the 72.1 innings of shutout ball in comparison between the two... In Comparison... Thats quite the difference.
I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuckI expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock BeauchampThe Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverbrian
With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.
I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.
And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.
So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal?
Than Why all the screaming?Quote:
Originally Posted by snepp
'So he's better than Blackburn........that makes it any less putrid of a deal? '
Does it matter that even Blackburn was better than Correia in 4 of the last 5 seasons?
Snepp... Snepp... It was directed at those who are comparing him to Blackburm.... That's embellishment!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by snepp
He's not gonna sniff 3.50...no way...it'll be a miracle if he's in the low 4.00.Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverbrianI won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuckI expect Correia to be a complete and utter disaster. Consider this: 2012 was his best season in the last 3 years. He posted an ERA+ of88. I don't see an ERA+ of 88 as good. He doesn't strike anybody out, instead relying on defense to do the job behind him. That's not gonna work out well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock BeauchampThe Marquis comparison isn't a bad one. Correia and Marquis are basically the same guy. Right-handed, soft-tossers with marginal control, don't miss bats, keep just over 50% of balls on the ground.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverbrian
With that said, Correia will probably not be as bad as Marquis in Minnesota. Marquis will also not be as good as he was in San Diego. The Marquis signing was "meh" at the time for me. I didn't like him as a pitcher but given the money left to JR at that point, I didn't fault him for trying. Marquis obviously had issues while in Minnesota because he completely imploded... but even if he had pitched similar to his 2011 line, he wasn't going to be very good and probably would have been a below average pitcher.
I expect Correia to be that pitcher in 2013. Below average, declining, but not a complete implosion a la Marquis.
And that still makes this two year (!) deal a mistake.
To me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
Seems to me most would be happy if we managed to get Marcum and/or Jackson...Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverbrianTo me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
[QUOTE=ThePuck;70420]Bill James projects 4.09 in 2013.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverbrian;70414
I won't argue projection. He could be anything from 3.50 to 12.00... If he has a similiar season to 2012... I'll be happy with that and the 5 million won't bug me at all.[/QUOTE
Me included... However... Marcum and Jackson were not overwhelmingly better stat wise in 2012.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuckSeems to me most would be happy if we managed to get Marcum and/or Jackson...Quote:
Originally Posted by RiverbrianTo me it does... To most... They will just say they are both crappy and hope that we pick up Greinke.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
[QUOTE=Riverbrian;70423]yeah, James is my boy...but that's wacky. He's not going to come to the AL, face DHs instead of pitchers, not strike anyone out, count on OUR defense, and get an ERA that low...and lower than last year, his lowest in 3 yearsQuote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
A miracle.
Marcum hasn't had an ERA over 3.70 in 4 years...two of those years in the AL East. He also Ks some people.. ERA+ over 110 last 4 years. Jackson, slightly less impressive...both way better than Correia.
We aren't asking much...
[QUOTE=ThePuck;70426]I'm a huge Bill James Fan... When he started doing his thing... He had the balls to keep doing it in the face of everyone telling him it was garbage... It didn't stop him and look what happened... He changed baseball.Quote:
Originally Posted by Riverbrianyeah, James is my boy...but that's wacky. He's not going to come to the AL, face DHs instead of pitchers, not strike anyone out, count on OUR defense, and get an ERA that low.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
A miracle.
However... Bill still hasn't figured out how to project with absolute certainly so we can take it with a grain of salt.
No doubt on Marcum... And Jackson... I'd like them both and I'd settle for one and I don't care what it costs. I think our difference in opinion is going to hinge on the "way better" part.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePuck
Yeah, unfortunately, he really hasn't done a good job over the years at projecting...but, like you, I'm still a fanQuote:
Originally Posted by Riverbrian
Sabathia had an ERA+ of 124 this year. Gavin Floyd had an ERA+ of 101. 23 point difference. Were they close?
23 point difference between Marcum and Correia in ERA+ last year...33 in 2011...47 in 2010.