Thread: Chance Twins open season with 75/80m payroll??

Originally Posted by Shane Wahl

The main issue for me is that Blackburn's $5.5 million is coming off the books after 2013 and Morneau's $14 million is too. I am not sure about what will happen with Jamey Carroll, but that 3.75 should be gone as well. THAT ALONE almost meets the amount they would spend for 2014 on Jackson and Marcum in the second year of their contracts. The Twins are going to live off of cheap players for many years through what is now a great farm system again.

Ha, I forgot about Blackburn's money.....but I think we are just talking to each other now. Some people really think that at some point the Twins will spend money. Not sure why they think that, since there is zero evidence so far it is true, and plenty to show it is not likely. Still hoping to be wrong....

Something that is rarely discussed is how much are teams spending on scouting and minor league coaching. I would guess that over the long run an extra $1 million or more per year spent on these items might pay big dividends.

Originally Posted by mike wants wins

Those saying they shouldn't spend money, what should they do with it? Pocket it? They are not likely to keep it, and use it in future years for signing bonuses, no one really thinks that, do they?

So if they do not spend it trying to make the team better, what should they do with it?

Yes there are people who believe they will

Originally Posted by 70charger

I don't disagree with you, JB Iowa, and I as a fan and taxpayer would like some statement to the effect of "yes, our payroll is low now, but just wait and see what happens when our minor league core gets really good in 2015/16." But I strongly disagree with those who claim that they "know" that the Pohlads are just pocketing the money, or that because they used to have a low payroll back in the completely different and not-all-that-far-behind-us Metrodome years, they "must" be doing the same things now.

I cannot imagine that the entire front office and ownership of the Twins isn't adapting to the changing situation in major league baseball and the changing Twins' situation in particular. Indeed, maybe it's just smart business to have a low payroll now when expectations are at their bottom and to overspend later when we're only a piece or two away.

Unless there's some sort of conspiracy theory. Do we at TD believe the Trilateral Commission runs the world government, too?

I concur, only the most cynical believe that the organization doesn't have a plan beyond lining their pockets. The club could definitely be more transparent and consistent in communicating what that plan is to the fan base, but just because they don't doesn't mean there isn't one. I'd rather believe the team is carefully considering the best way to move forward, either pay a boatload of money for some good (not great) help now or keep stockpiling the cupboard and spend the money when those players graduate on some key veteran pieces.

I'm willing to accept I could be totally wrong but because I don't know any better than anyone else, I prefer the wait and see approach.

The Bilderbergs run the World Government, not the Trilateral Commission, no wait there the same thing,or are they? Conspiracy indeed.

All I know is that my stance is that if they insist they are going to compete next year..and they don't spend the money on a decent pitcher, I'm not spending a dime to go see them play until I actually see they are competitive. If they'd spend the money to make it look.like an effort for 2013 is in place, I'd probably buy some tickets in advance. If their roster solutions consist of the lower tier variety, I'm not forking over a dime in advance.

All this talk of people saying how the Pohlads spend their millions of dollars and how it's not our money.. well that is how I will move forward regarding my money and the team.

Michael Young was traded to Philadelphia. MLBTR thinks Texas may be looking for a 1B/DH type and that Olt may be available. Think Morneau would bring him?

Originally Posted by Willihammer

When Jr says "the Twins can't give their money away," I don't believe him.

Baker 1/5.5
McCarthy 2/15.5
Blanton 2/15

The Twins could have pitched a signing bonus to all 3 equaling 50% of their 2013 salary, and they would have paid $30m next year, and only be on the hook for 15.5m in 2014.

They could have offered each an additional year of guaranteed money, incentives, no trade clauses, vesting options, whatever. They could have gotten more creative to get even 1 of these guys.

I can't believe all 3 turned down deals from the Twins that were better than what they ended up signing for.

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Originally Posted by 70charger

I don't disagree with you, JB Iowa, and I as a fan and taxpayer would like some statement to the effect of "yes, our payroll is low now, but just wait and see what happens when our minor league core gets really good in 2015/16." But I strongly disagree with those who claim that they "know" that the Pohlads are just pocketing the money, or that because they used to have a low payroll back in the completely different and not-all-that-far-behind-us Metrodome years, they "must" be doing the same things now.

I cannot imagine that the entire front office and ownership of the Twins isn't adapting to the changing situation in major league baseball and the changing Twins' situation in particular. Indeed, maybe it's just smart business to have a low payroll now when expectations are at their bottom and to overspend later when we're only a piece or two away.

Unless there's some sort of conspiracy theory. Do we at TD believe the Trilateral Commission runs the world government, too?

I concur, only the most cynical believe that the organization doesn't have a plan beyond lining their pockets. The club could definitely be more transparent and consistent in communicating what that plan is to the fan base, but just because they don't doesn't mean there isn't one. I'd rather believe the team is carefully considering the best way to move forward, either pay a boatload of money for some good (not great) help now or keep stockpiling the cupboard and spend the money when those players graduate on some key veteran pieces.

I'm willing to accept I could be totally wrong but because I don't know any better than anyone else, I prefer the wait and see approach.

The Bilderbergs run the World Government, not the Trilateral Commission, no wait there the same thing,or are they? Conspiracy indeed.

+1

Those Bilderbergs, man. They're like the modern-day Templars.

And don't get me started on those damn Masons!

Originally Posted by mnfireman

Michael Young was traded to Philadelphia. MLBTR thinks Texas may be looking for a 1B/DH type and that Olt may be available. Think Morneau would bring him?

unfortunate....but a former MVP & multiple all star may not be enough to get Olt.

The Twins could have sign Zack, that would have gave them just two players over 10M in 2014. Now we will have just one and 2 more 100 loss seasons. It's just to bad that a Twins fans have to put up with this.

Originally Posted by old nurse

Originally Posted by Willihammer

When Jr says "the Twins can't give their money away," I don't believe him.

Baker 1/5.5
McCarthy 2/15.5
Blanton 2/15

The Twins could have pitched a signing bonus to all 3 equaling 50% of their 2013 salary, and they would have paid $30m next year, and only be on the hook for 15.5m in 2014.

They could have offered each an additional year of guaranteed money, incentives, no trade clauses, vesting options, whatever. They could have gotten more creative to get even 1 of these guys.

I can't believe all 3 turned down deals from the Twins that were better than what they ended up signing for.

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

Yes, McCarthy on this roster over Deduno does make them more competitive. Does it alone make them great, no. But it makes them better. That should be the goal. If they should only spend money if they are "certain" to win, they should trade every player on this roster that won't be here in 2 years...and then sell no tickets.

Originally Posted by old nurse

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

Considering who will likely pitch in their stead in 2013, and 2014 and 2015 for that matter, yes. With a few breaks and a little luck health-wise, the Twins could have been competitive in 2013 and 2014, or at least, more competitive.

Obviously, there is risk in all 3. But it didn't take huge longterm deals to get any of these guys. And, Justin Verlander could get hurt too. Chris Sale had a sore elbow last year, Peavy is always a risk. Everyone is a year older, some guys will break down. It works both ways.

At the very least, when you tell 22,000 people who have already bought season ticket packages, that you are going to field a competitive team, you should get the guys who, if the breaks go your way, are talented enough to deliver on your promise. I will happily eat crow if Ryan goes out and get Sanchez and Jackson, but that is not looking likely. Instead, if the rumors are to be believed, he is chasing 4 bottom feeders who even if healthy aren't talented enough to put this team into contention. That, would be money wasted.

The Twins created certain expectations by their repeated reference to the 50+% rule through the years. I've suggested previously that it may make sense to have a payroll of less than 50% while rebuilding while expending more than 50% once the team matures.

That approach makes sense to me. But given this franchise's repeated prior references to the 50% rule, they CANNOT do this in a vacuum. If they are to have any credibility with fans, they must explain what they are doing and then they must follow through on that spending plan as time goes along. Even if they do that, many fans are going to doubt their sincerity that they would later spend current savings. Like it or not, Terry Ryan and the Pohlads have a reputation for being cheap (and that reputation was strengthened when Jim Pohlad made it pretty clear that he replaced Bill Smith because Smith wanted to keep the budget at $110m+).

I actually expect this whole discussion to be moot. I don't think the Twins will significantly change their approach to the 50% rule. I do expect payroll to be in the $91 million - $94 million range. (Although I admittedly wouldn't be too surprised if it came in at $85-$90 m)

Originally Posted by edavis0308

All I know is that my stance is that if they insist they are going to compete next year..and they don't spend the money on a decent pitcher, I'm not spending a dime to go see them play until I actually see they are competitive. If they'd spend the money to make it look.like an effort for 2013 is in place, I'd probably buy some tickets in advance. If their roster solutions consist of the lower tier variety, I'm not forking over a dime in advance.

All this talk of people saying how the Pohlads spend their millions of dollars and how it's not our money.. well that is how I will move forward regarding my money and the team.

What do you expect? Dave St. Peter calls a press conference and says "Hey, you know that year 2013? Yeah, **** that noise."

Not gonna happen.

This whole thread summed up in 3 words:

HUUUURRRRRRR DUUUURRRRRR DEERP

Originally Posted by mike wants wins

Originally Posted by old nurse

Originally Posted by Willihammer

When Jr says "the Twins can't give their money away," I don't believe him.

Baker 1/5.5
McCarthy 2/15.5
Blanton 2/15

The Twins could have pitched a signing bonus to all 3 equaling 50% of their 2013 salary, and they would have paid $30m next year, and only be on the hook for 15.5m in 2014.

They could have offered each an additional year of guaranteed money, incentives, no trade clauses, vesting options, whatever. They could have gotten more creative to get even 1 of these guys.

I can't believe all 3 turned down deals from the Twins that were better than what they ended up signing for.

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

Yes, McCarthy on this roster over Deduno does make them more competitive. Does it alone make them great, no. But it makes them better. That should be the goal. If they should only spend money if they are "certain" to win, they should trade every player on this roster that won't be here in 2 years...and then sell no tickets.

With McCarthy you would still get Deduno pitching as many games for the Twins as he did last year.

Originally Posted by Willihammer

Originally Posted by old nurse

Would Baker or McCarthy starting 15-20 games make the Twins competitive in 2013? Would Blanton pitching like he has the last couple of years make the Twins competitive? Giving these players more money than what they signed for is giving money away.

Considering who will likely pitch in their stead in 2013, and 2014 and 2015 for that matter, yes. With a few breaks and a little luck health-wise, the Twins could have been competitive in 2013 and 2014, or at least, more competitive.

Obviously, there is risk in all 3. But it didn't take huge longterm deals to get any of these guys. And, Justin Verlander could get hurt too. Chris Sale had a sore elbow last year, Peavy is always a risk. Everyone is a year older, some guys will break down. It works both ways.

At the very least, when you tell 22,000 people who have already bought season ticket packages, that you are going to field a competitive team, you should get the guys who, if the breaks go your way, are talented enough to deliver on your promise. I will happily eat crow if Ryan goes out and get Sanchez and Jackson, but that is not looking likely. Instead, if the rumors are to be believed, he is chasing 4 bottom feeders who even if healthy aren't talented enough to put this team into contention. That, would be money wasted.

Why not wait until the signings of more comment or healthier pitchers to sign to complain. Then you would not have to eat crow.

Originally Posted by mnfireman

Michael Young was traded to Philadelphia. MLBTR thinks Texas may be looking for a 1B/DH type and that Olt may be available. Think Morneau would bring him?

No... They're not going to deal one of baseball's ttop hitting prospects for a year of a $14 million player. Also, so many in this forum would probably complain because that would mean that the Twins would have about $13.5 million less in payroll.

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

Originally Posted by mnfireman

Michael Young was traded to Philadelphia. MLBTR thinks Texas may be looking for a 1B/DH type and that Olt may be available. Think Morneau would bring him?

No... They're not going to deal one of baseball's ttop hitting prospects for a year of a $14 million player. Also, so many in this forum would probably complain because that would mean that the Twins would have about $13.5 million less in payroll.

Not if they spent it.....but I would consider it a good trade. But that should create a context to spend money. But they'd really look like the Marlins then, wouldn't they?

Greinke just signed. A couple of mid-level pitchers have signed. Still lots out there and time. Why not at least wait a month to whine about what the Twins didn't do, rather than now about what they might not (or even probably won't) do.