Scott Baker Signs with Chicago Cubs

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

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Originally Posted by PseudoSABR

Well, if that insanity included Baker as one of the "good" three starters....

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Missed the point bud. Most of this thread is saying "I can't believe they paid him that!" Welcome to free agency. Hence why the idea of solving this team's pitching woes there was ridiculous from the start.

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I don't remember anybody saying they were going to solve the pitching woes solely through free agency. Plenty, including Ryan himself have said they will explore every option with trades obviously being their next best option.

I'll agree it's going to be a stretch but losing Baker is hardly cause for excessive hand wringing, not to mention the ridiculous condescation.

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

So what you're saying is, you think we have people in our front office smarter than Epstein?

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What I'm saying is that, given the same resources (and blind eye to PEDs), I think Ryan would have done just as well in Boston.

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Originally Posted by gunnarthor

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Originally Posted by ThePuck

So what you're saying is, you think we have people in our front office smarter than Epstein?

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What I'm saying is that, given the same resources (and blind eye to PEDs), I think Ryan would have done just as well in Boston.

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..................http://www.websmileys.com/sm/cool/049.gif

Um, don't be so sanctimonious on PEDs, this organization has had guys suspended, and when TK was told about them being found in the locker room he brushed it under the table, if I recall the story correctly.

Every organization was blind to PED's in the 90's and early 00's so I don't want to hear that argument on why A organization isn't as good as B organization.

Money doesn't help win championships but it sure helps with preventing prolonged bad years. If you have the budget you can have 1-2-3 bad drafts, 1-2-3 bad signings, 1-2-3 bad injuries. If you have money those hurt, if you don't they hurt more and for a longer period.

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I don't remember anybody saying they were going to solve the pitching woes solely through free agency. Plenty, including Ryan himself have said they will explore every option with trades obviously being their next best option.

I'll agree it's going to be a stretch but losing Baker is hardly cause for excessive hand wringing, not to mention the ridiculous condescation.

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This forum is littered with predictions of bringing in Marcum and Jackson. Or signing Dempster "cheap". Nothing comes cheap in FA. Baker got about what you'd expect - 20-30% more than was sane and deserved. Again, welcome to FA.

To earn the contract, Baker needs to produce 1 WAR. In fact according to Parker's recent article, he may not even need to perform that well. I think it is reasonable to think that Baker could produce 2 WAR next season and be worth over 10 million.

It is quite possible the Twins will regret not picking up that option. The Twins should have expected that he would sign elsewhere if they did not pick up the option. It will be interesting to see of the 9 million we spend this winter on pitching out performs Baker.

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Originally Posted by jorgenswest

It will be interesting to see of the 9 million we spend this winter on pitching out performs Baker.

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It will be interesting to see if the Twins actually spend 9 million on pitching this winter, period.

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I don't remember anybody saying they were going to solve the pitching woes solely through free agency. Plenty, including Ryan himself have said they will explore every option with trades obviously being their next best option.

I'll agree it's going to be a stretch but losing Baker is hardly cause for excessive hand wringing, not to mention the ridiculous condescation.

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This forum is littered with predictions of bringing in Marcum and Jackson. Or signing Dempster "cheap". Nothing comes cheap in FA. Baker got about what you'd expect - 20-30% more than was sane and deserved. Again, welcome to FA.

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I didn't say it wasn't littered with those type of predictions and I didn't say anything came cheap. Again, it's not the only avenue any rational person expects to take to solve the pitching woes and there have been many discussions on this forum along those lines.

I don't expect the Twins to spend big all of a sudden either but I don't see how not paying Baker 5+ is reason to hang the closed sign on the door just yet.

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Originally Posted by USAFChief

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Originally Posted by jorgenswest

It will be interesting to see of the 9 million we spend this winter on pitching out performs Baker.

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It will be interesting to see if the Twins actually spend 9 million on pitching this winter, period.

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Ouch.

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I don't expect the Twins to spend big all of a sudden either but I don't see how not paying Baker 5+ is reason to hang the closed sign on the door just yet.

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I never said close the door on getting anyone. I said close the door on thinking 20M was going to land you 3 pitchers. 5M for Baker isn't that awful and shouldn't have been that shocking. He's a pitcher who has been successful. Quite a bit more successful than most of this fanbase has appreciated. Injury or not that has value.

You don't have to take the remark personally, not sure why you feel the need to do so, but the fact is people seem to think that the payroll flexibility the Twins have (if they were to spend all that they are assumed to have) would somehow land them as many as 2 of the top 5-7 pitchers on the market. That was ridiculous then and it should be glaringly obvious how ridiculous it was now.

Obviously theo epistein is working his magic by signing baker, but I think he that he will simply be a trade target by the end of the
trading deadline. Either that or it will be a bust sense baker is now pitching in the NL. But no matter how you look at it he is still going to be a cub for one year. Instead of a twin.

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I don't expect the Twins to spend big all of a sudden either but I don't see how not paying Baker 5+ is reason to hang the closed sign on the door just yet.

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I never said close the door on getting anyone. I said close the door on thinking 20M was going to land you 3 pitchers. 5M for Baker isn't that awful and shouldn't have been that shocking. He's a pitcher who has been successful. Quite a bit more successful than most of this fanbase has appreciated. Injury or not that has value.

You don't have to take the remark personally, not sure why you feel the need to do so, but the fact is people seem to think that the payroll flexibility the Twins have (if they were to spend all that they are assumed to have) would somehow land them as many as 2 of the top 5-7 pitchers on the market. That was ridiculous then and it should be glaringly obvious how ridiculous it was now.

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I understand your points and I agree with you, I just think that most people here were realistic about which free agents we could afford, sure a few out there posters were claiming 2 of the top 7 was realistic but they were the minority.

I think the surprise with Baker is just based in his injury history , not that mediocre pitchers don't get that kind of dough.

I don't take anything in this board personally, sorry if I sound that way.

I'd be happy if they got one guy that they really really like in FA. If it takes 20 million so be it... Just one guy... Make him good... Baker for 5 is not that guy in my opinion.

Hey Rocketpig, pretty weak shutting down the other thread, ever since the Twinsdaily transition you seem to have become a bit of a company man. No offense, but you protecting that douche and encouraging that garbage he spews makes this forum worse.

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I understand your points and I agree with you, I just think that most people here were realistic about which free agents we could afford, sure a few out there posters were claiming 2 of the top 7 was realistic but they were the minority.

I think the surprise with Baker is just based in his injury history , not that mediocre pitchers don't get that kind of dough.

I don't take anything in this board personally, sorry if I sound that way.

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The rampant offseason speculation and plans indicate otherwise. I see a Shields-Johnson-Baker, Marcum-Baker-S. Drew-M.Cabrera, Haren-Marcum-Baker-Bedard, Marcum-Bedard-Baker-Youk. And I haven't even finished the first page of the blueprints. And I haven't even cited your average "Hey we should get this guy because he doesn't suck" series of threads.

Baker has been better than mediocre. When healthy he's been a bonafide #2 pitcher. 5M isn't a bad risk on a guy like that if giving him guaranteed cash gives your club a good chance to keep him around long-term.

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I understand your points and I agree with you, I just think that most people here were realistic about which free agents we could afford, sure a few out there posters were claiming 2 of the top 7 was realistic but they were the minority.

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Why is it unrealistic to think the Twins could sign 2 of the top 7 FA starting pitchers on the market?

AFAIK, there are no rules against it.

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Originally Posted by John Bonnes

$5.5M for one-year, plus incentives for a guy who had TJ in April? And no option year?

You're welcome to him Theo. Congrats to Scotty's agent. (My guess is you'll be hearing from Colby Lewis shortly.)

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Agree! If you want that kind of money coming off TJ surgery then you have to give the team an option if things go well, plus I have to think the Twins offer was significantly less. Odd for a rebuilding Cubs team to pay that kind of money for maybe a half season...

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Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

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Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I don't expect the Twins to spend big all of a sudden either but I don't see how not paying Baker 5+ is reason to hang the closed sign on the door just yet.

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I never said close the door on getting anyone. I said close the door on thinking 20M was going to land you 3 pitchers. 5M for Baker isn't that awful and shouldn't have been that shocking. He's a pitcher who has been successful. Quite a bit more successful than most of this fanbase has appreciated. Injury or not that has value.

You don't have to take the remark personally, not sure why you feel the need to do so, but the fact is people seem to think that the payroll flexibility the Twins have (if they were to spend all that they are assumed to have) would somehow land them as many as 2 of the top 5-7 pitchers on the market. That was ridiculous then and it should be glaringly obvious how ridiculous it was now.

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Yeah, 5 M is not a bad contract at all for a guy like Baker.

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Originally Posted by USAFChief

Why is it unrealistic to think the Twins could sign 2 of the top 7 FA starting pitchers on the market?

AFAIK, there are no rules against it.

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Because your belief in what the Twins can and should spend and what they likely and will spend is the difference between realistic and wishful thinking.