Reds SS Zack Cozart for... Ben Revere?

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11-09-2012, 01:19 PM
scottz

With all the talk of pitching, what are thoughts on trading for a SS?

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/1...gregorius.html

I like Cozart - don't know much about Gregorius. And I'm not sure I love the idea of losing Span as a trading chip and not getting back a pitcher. However, I think most agree that the middle infield could use some help. Would a trade centered on Span for SS be acceptable to you?

If nothing else, I think it is a good thing to have buzz centered around Span to as many teams as possible. If the Braves/Mariners/whomever think that Span is being discussed with the Reds/other teams, then theoretically, those teams might have to offer more than they would otherwise.

Discuss!
11-09-2012, 01:42 PM
Winston Smith

Didi and Cingrani for Span and a low prospect could work. Young starter and SS would really help.
11-09-2012, 01:49 PM
John Bonnes

Reds SS Zack Cozart for... Ben Revere?

Jon Paul Morosi reports that Cincinnati Red GM Walt Jocketty is open to trading away one of his shortstops - Zack Cozart or Didi Gregorious - for a closer or center field/lead off hitter. The Twins are specifically mentioned by Morosi as one of the options for a trade.

Cozart is a guy I wrote up in the Handbook. He's interesting, not spectacular. He's 27 and has some power - he hit 15 HR with the Reds and has a career slugging percentage of .421 in the minors. (His AAA numbers: .275/.327/.432 with 158K and 63 BB in 960 AB.) He's right handed, though I don't know if he's a pull hitter. Best of all, he graded out very well defensively (+9 UZR/150).

IN the Handbook, I suggested trading Span for Cozart, and I don't think that's a terrible idea. But a better idea might be to float Revere. He's young, he's cheap, he's good defensively, he's a lead off guy that steals bases. (Think of him and Hamilton at the top of that lineup in a few years.) That would probably mean hanging onto Span for this offseason, but he could be moved at the deadline when Hicks is hopefully ready to be called up. Plus, the Twins have their shortstop for the next few years.
11-09-2012, 01:50 PM
Top Gun

Span for Asdrubal then sign Josh Hamilton, to hell with pitching.
11-09-2012, 01:51 PM
John Bonnes

Darn, second duplicate thread I've started today. They're combined now....
11-09-2012, 01:53 PM
gunnarthor

I think you're over rating Cozart. He had a .632 OPS away from the Reds bandbox stadium. His power won't translate to TF. He's defense is solid but it's not worth giving up a better defender in CF. I still think Span to the Reds for Didi + pitcher makes sense. But Span (or Revere) straight up for Cozart is a bad trade for us.
11-09-2012, 01:53 PM
SpiritofVodkaDave

I wish we could trade for Billy Hamilton :)
11-09-2012, 01:55 PM
Seth Stohs

Cozart does nothing for me. Gregorius is intriguing. I wouldn't deal Span for either of them. I would deal Revere for Gregorius.

And yes, anything that could bring Tony Cingrani would be good with me!
11-09-2012, 02:03 PM
John Bonnes

What do you guys see in Gregorius that I don't? I see a guy whose sole statistical benefit is that he's young. He isn't fast. He doesn't have any power. He's not adept at getting on base. I think I'd rather have Brian Dozier than Gregorius - at least Dozier showed in the minors he can get on base.

What am I missing?

I'm not looking at Cozart as a star, but as a solid player for the next four years. Think Jason Bartlett but without the plate discipline, with more power and a more consistent glove.
11-09-2012, 02:04 PM
nicksaviking

I'd rather chase after Cingrani, Corcino or Stephenson. Neither SS looks to be able to get on base enough to be a centerpiece of a deal. If the Twins can talk the Reds into one of the starters AND one of the SS that would be great in my book, but my money is on that asking price being the sticking point last July when the trade fell through for Span. I said during the season I hope the Reds get bounced from the playoffs in the first round and get even more desperate for a CF/leadoff hitter. Maybe they're more willing to overpay now.
11-09-2012, 02:10 PM
gunnarthor

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

What do you guys see in Gregorius that I don't? I see a guy whose sole statistical benefit is that he's young. He isn't fast. He doesn't have any power. He's not adept at getting on base. I think I'd rather have Brian Dozier than Gregorius - at least Dozier showed in the minors he can get on base.

What am I missing?

I'm not looking at Cozart as a star, but as a solid player for the next four years. Think Jason Bartlett but without the plate discipline, with more power and a more consistent glove.

Didi made the majors at 22, Dozier was in rookie ball. Dozier hasn't shown the ability to get on base above AA. Scouts like Didi, he won't be a star but he'll stick at short and his bat should be better than Cozart's.
11-09-2012, 02:11 PM
gunnarthor

Quote:

Originally Posted by nicksaviking

I'd rather chase after Cingrani, Corcino or Stephenson. Neither SS looks to be able to get on base enough to be a centerpiece of a deal. If the Twins can talk the Reds into one of the starters AND one of the SS that would be great in my book, but my money is on that asking price being the sticking point last July when the trade fell through for Span. I said during the season I hope the Reds get bounced from the playoffs in the first round and get even more desperate for a CF/leadoff hitter. Maybe they're more willing to overpay now.

Agree 100%.
11-09-2012, 02:16 PM
iastfan112

I'm intrigued by Cozart, thought he looked pretty good in the few Red's games I watched last year. I'd want something in addition to him if we're giving up Span or Revere but he'd be a solid starting point.
11-09-2012, 02:37 PM
SpiritofVodkaDave

Cozart is interesting, as we would be buying low on him at this point. What happened to his speed? He had 30 SB in 2010 then totally dropped off.

His defense is sound, is under team control til 2018 and if he could manage to put up a .720 OPS he would be the best long term SS the Twins have had in quite a while. He has some solid pop.

I would definitely think hard about trading Revere for him straight up, since Revere's long term prospects are more of a 4th OF then an every day player. If it were me I'd make the swap in a heart beat.
11-09-2012, 02:42 PM
Boom Boom

Shortstop? We've got a three-headed Dozier/Florimon/Field monster there. No space for Cozart.
11-09-2012, 02:46 PM
ThePuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

Didi made the majors at 22, Dozier was in rookie ball. Dozier hasn't shown the ability to get on base above AA. Scouts like Didi, he won't be a star but he'll stick at short and his bat should be better than Cozart's.

Didi was drafted out of high school, Dozier went to college. Dozier spent less time in the minors before getting called up. Didi also didn't show the ability to get on base past AA
11-09-2012, 02:55 PM
Siehbiscuit

The Red's rotation is pretty deep and they continue to flirt with moving Aroldis Chapman back to the rotation. Would a Span for CHapman swap be a good option for both?
11-09-2012, 03:45 PM
AllhopeisgoneMNTWINS

Am I the only one who is interested in Stephen Drew? He will be cheap, and if he comes anywhere near his playing days in Arizona its a fricken steal. Why not take a chance.
11-09-2012, 03:57 PM
gunnarthor

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

Didi made the majors at 22, Dozier was in rookie ball. Dozier hasn't shown the ability to get on base above AA. Scouts like Didi, he won't be a star but he'll stick at short and his bat should be better than Cozart's.

Didi was drafted out of high school, Dozier went to college. Dozier spent less time in the minors before getting called up. Didi also didn't show the ability to get on base past AA

Didi was signed as an international free agent from the Netherlands. Arguing that Dozier spent less time in the minors is, at best, a canard. Dozier spent 4 years playing in college then spent the next 3+ years in the minors before making the majors at 25. While neither has dominated the upper levels of the minors, Didi has managed to beat Dozier to those levels by three years. Also, unlike Dozier, he is good defensively. No one should suggest that Dozier is a better option.
11-09-2012, 04:31 PM
ThePuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThePuck

Quote:

Originally Posted by gunnarthor

Didi made the majors at 22, Dozier was in rookie ball. Dozier hasn't shown the ability to get on base above AA. Scouts like Didi, he won't be a star but he'll stick at short and his bat should be better than Cozart's.

Didi was drafted out of high school, Dozier went to college. Dozier spent less time in the minors before getting called up. Didi also didn't show the ability to get on base past AA

Didi was signed as an international free agent from the Netherlands. Arguing that Dozier spent less time in the minors is, at best, a canard. Dozier spent 4 years playing in college then spent the next 3+ years in the minors before making the majors at 25. While neither has dominated the upper levels of the minors, Didi has managed to beat Dozier to those levels by three years. Also, unlike Dozier, he is good defensively. No one should suggest that Dozier is a better option.

You mentioned their age for when they reached the majors as to why one was better than the other...and my point was, they were drafted/signed at different ages so JUST looking at age for when they made the majors makes no sense since one was drafted/signed at 18 and one was drafted after 4 years in college. Of course Dozier was in rookie ball at 22. When he was drafted, he was 22. His first year in the minors, he was 22. Heck, only 3 years in the minors for a position player to make the majors is grease lightning for the Twins...

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