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According to mlbtraderumors the Braves are going to be looking heavily at a CF to replace Bourn and Span is at the top of the list. I'm not going to mention all the arms the Braves have since we have gone over them time and time again in the Willingham thread, but wonder if we can get a better package for Span then Willingham, I am guessing that the haul would be significantly greater.
Execs dont think the hammer as valuable because his defense is atrocious. Best bet is to wait until midseason when teams are desperate for a right handed power bat. Trade span now and then see if u can get a pitching prospect in july for willingham the great
In July only a couple of teams looking to add, but before April many teams need a power hitter. But if trading Span is their preference--so be it! The Twins have a bevy of other CF options, but power hitting options?--none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twins Twerp
I am going to have to disagree with you on that. Teams are going to be able to go out and sign anyone they want before April. With two extra teams making the playoffs, I see the demand for Power higher in July. I don't see anyone yearning for Hammer as you may be able to find someone who can hit AND play defense. Once the season starts we will see injury as well as players underperforming. A bat like Willinghams will come in handy then and teams may disregard his defense.Quote:
Originally Posted by KwakIn July only a couple of teams looking to add, but before April many teams need a power hitter. But if trading Span is their preference--so be it! The Twins have a bevy of other CF options, but power hitting options?--none.Quote:
Originally Posted by Twins Twerp
CF seems to be much more important to these teams and after Bourn and Hamilton are gone Span might be next. If a team calls on Revere and offers a decent package or a pitcher, take it.
This actually isn't true. Teams make other moves in the offseason to fill corner OF spots. Frequently they put in washed up vets (for example RonDL White) and sometimes they put in unproven youngsters (Chris Parmelee). Sometimes they get a rebound or a breakout and sometimes they have an awful hole in their lineup and they are willing to overpay for a good bat. Of course Willingham could get injured...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwak
The comment was pasted into the Willingham thread, and it never said Span was "the top" of the list, just that he would be high on the list.
Yup this is why we were able to get Willingham in the first place. Teams are learning they don't need to over pay to get corner OF's with a bat. Hell I still can't believe Werth got that much money.Quote:
Originally Posted by kab21This actually isn't true. Teams make other moves in the offseason to fill corner OF spots. Frequently they put in washed up vets (for example RonDL White) and sometimes they put in unproven youngsters (Chris Parmelee). Sometimes they get a rebound or a breakout and sometimes they have an awful hole in their lineup and they are willing to overpay for a good bat. Of course Willingham could get injured...Quote:
Originally Posted by Kwak
The Werth deal was a terrible deal. I remember thinking that it was when it happened, and I still think it today. In fact, I thought it would hinder the Nationals for years. Turns out I was wrong as the Naionals are still spending money and might have the brightest future of any team in the Majors.
I wonder if the answer isn't a little more nebulous and based on supply and demand. This year, it seems like there are a few teams that are losing their center fielders and looking for a cheap replacement (Braves, Rays, Mets? Phillies?), so there is a good demand and a short supply. (Is there really anyone besided Span and maybe Victorino that fit that bill?)
When it comes to power corner guys, there are more guys than Willingham on the list right now - Choo and Hunter certainly spring to mind. So maybe for now, Span is more valuable, but later, when some teams miss out on the other big names, Willingham looks more appealing.
Kind of a half-baked analysis, but it does seem like the aggressive teams are chasing CFers now.
I was worried that the opposite would be true. I'm just glad that this situation appears to be swinging to the Twins' favor. In a typical market, it would be pretty damned hard to move Span for starting pitching but with teams aggressively pursuing CF help, it might be possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bonnes
Depends on where you're looking...Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bonnes
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.
CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
Yeah, I can't remember the last time the Twins had the upper hand on the supply/demand scale and were motivated to trade. The Twins probably haven't had a high-value chip affordable to all 30 teams since Matt Garza. Before that it was probably AJ Pierzynski. Let's hope this plays out more like the latter deal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Brock BeauchampI was worried that the opposite would be true. I'm just glad that this situation appears to be swinging to the Twins' favor. In a typical market, it would be pretty damned hard to move Span for starting pitching but with teams aggressively pursuing CF help, it might be possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bonnes
Also, is it out of the question to require Span to wear a bike helmet at all times between now and whenever he takes his hypothetical physical?
You realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggentlebenDepends on where you're looking...Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bonnes
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.
CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
Fowler's been strongly rumored in a move for pitching as the Rockies have some depth at the position ready to hit the majors (he's also a Georgia boy, so there's some ties that could lead to stronger interest by the Braves in Fowler than Span). However, note that other than Span and Fowler, I listed that the rest of that list COULD be available, not that they all were. As far as Pierre and Ichiro in CF, I wouldn't want them in CF for a team I was rooting for, for sure, but I could absolutely see some team thinking they could strike one last nugget of gold out of those guys in that position.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDaveYou realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggentlebenDepends on where you're looking...Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bonnes
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.
CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
What does him being a Georgia boy have anything to do with him being traded? If you are talking about a contract extension with him, fine that has merit, but the "they would prefer fowler over span because of his home state" is a little ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggentlebenFowler's been strongly rumored in a move for pitching as the Rockies have some depth at the position ready to hit the majors (he's also a Georgia boy, so there's some ties that could lead to stronger interest by the Braves in Fowler than Span). However, note that other than Span and Fowler, I listed that the rest of that list COULD be available, not that they all were. As far as Pierre and Ichiro in CF, I wouldn't want them in CF for a team I was rooting for, for sure, but I could absolutely see some team thinking they could strike one last nugget of gold out of those guys in that position.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDaveYou realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggentlebenDepends on where you're looking...Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bonnes
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.
CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
Also you realize Pierre hasn't played CF regularly in 5 years? And only played 3 full games at CF in the past 4 years. Which club is going to pencil him in for CF? And if there is a team dumb enough to do that, they aren't really going to be a trade partner/target for us anyways. Ditto with Ichiro, he has played 5 games in CF in the past 4 years.
That's like claiming Michael Cuddyer is viable candidate for a starting 2B/SS role.
BGB - Who do you like better Bourn or Span? Their stats are fairly comparable - the exception being that Bourn plays a lot more, steals more bases and K's a lot more. Also, what are some realistic scenarios you would like to see play out for ATL this offseason. I like the Braves from afar and am curious to read your opinion and insight.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggentlebenFowler's been strongly rumored in a move for pitching as the Rockies have some depth at the position ready to hit the majors (he's also a Georgia boy, so there's some ties that could lead to stronger interest by the Braves in Fowler than Span). However, note that other than Span and Fowler, I listed that the rest of that list COULD be available, not that they all were. As far as Pierre and Ichiro in CF, I wouldn't want them in CF for a team I was rooting for, for sure, but I could absolutely see some team thinking they could strike one last nugget of gold out of those guys in that position.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDaveYou realize that the only two available via trade that aren't below average (at best) are Span and Fowler, and I'm not sure if Fowler is even on the block. Ichiro and Pierre are not major league starting CF's at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by biggentlebenDepends on where you're looking...Quote:
Originally Posted by John Bonnes
CF Trade market is fairly deep, though weak at the top, highlighted by Span and Dexter Fowler most likely, and with a few guys like Lorenzo Cain, Carlos Gomez, Craig Gentry, Peter Bourjos, Gerardo Parra, Franklin Gutierrez, Wil Venable, and more that could be available depending on free agent signings.
CF Free agent market is okay, though: Michael Bourn, BJ Upton, Angel Pagan, and Shane Victorino along with a collection of guys who could be non-tendered and guys who may or may not work in center defensively like a Josh Hamilton, Ichiro Suzuki, Juan Pierre, or Grady Sizemore.
To everyone else Sorry for getting off point regarding this thread.
Vodka Dave....I couldnt have said it any better, i was thinking this exact thought when i read this earlier.
Below average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave
We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.
Well put. I like Span a lot - but like you said his health and overall skill package are not going to fetch you a GREAT prospect. I have made my peace with the Twins probably trading Span this offseason - hopefully they can acquire a young player who can help in a somewhat significant way now, but more importantly post 2013 - and I don't necessarily think it will be a pitcher (hopefully it is). We'll see what happens - but if he is traded, I predict there will be some bummed out Twins fans for a few days in regards to what the Twins returns will be.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeviathanBelow average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave
We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.
Span is a role player? lol He posted a 4 WAR last season, that is a little better then role player.Quote:
Originally Posted by TheLeviathanBelow average at best? Plenty of those players are perfectly fine players and possibly a better gamble if you believe Span is somehow going to land you a gem. That kind of pricetag is going to quickly steer people to Gomez, Bourjos, Gutierrez, etc that have bargain written all over them as buy-low options.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave
We're exaggerating a bit here to believe that Span is somehow a shining beacon of value among this group. He should be in the upper half but hold your horses if you think you're going to put the screws to anyone over him. You can hope to push a bidding war, but that's only going to go so far given the problems with Span. (Concussions, lack of impactful speed, limited home run power) He's got plenty of pluses to his game, but he's not a star. He's a roleplayer, let's keep our expectations sane here.
I never said he is going to bring back some top tier prospect package or whatever, but with his history, contract and ability he should be able to bring back a very attractive package.
Or you can always roll the dice with Carlos Gomez I suppose, let me know how that works out for the next team to sign that disaster.