Thread: Article: When Can the Twins Compete Again?

Originally Posted by Boys of Summer

No way do you get Elvis Andrus for Span. Texas believes and some "experts" agree that they will dangle Andrus for David Price. Obtaining Josh Johnson will require way more than anyone here would give---a Teixiera type package.

Shhhh....you're trying to make Dave less obnoxious!

Looking at the folks who are in the playoffs this year, it's pretty clear to me that it isn't a set number of years to contention, it's a culture shift. When the Twins demonstrate accountability, grit, fire and determination, players will rise to the challenges they give one another. Solid, mid-to-upper tier free agents will be inspired to sign here, and smart GM work can plug smaller holes with quality finds. Until that culture shift happens, we could rival the Yankees in spending in 2013 and still not have much to show for it come October.

If you want grit, fire, and determination, then Gardy's gotta go. All he wants are the strong, silent types like Mauer and Morneau.

I am still pissed that the Twins let Hardy walk. Do you remember how he got injured in 2010? He stretched a double into a triple and hurt himself sliding into 3rd. In the bottom of the 9th. He then scored the winning run on a wild pitch. That's the kind of player you're talking about, and Gardy didn't think he was worth keeping around.

Texas has a boatload of starting pitching and beyond has Colby Lewis and Neftali Feliz a little behind Gibson and Baker in rehabbing from TJ. I would offer a package of Span/Revere, Morneau/Parmelee and Henricks/Hermson for Holland and a lower level, higher upside pitching prospect to add one starter (it might not be enough). I would add two more pitchers from free agency. It's unlikely that we'll be able to get any of the higher profile pitchers, however some under-the-radar guys might be attainable. I'd look at Iwakuma (from Seattle), Hernandez (former Carmona from Cleveland) and Villanueva (from Toronto) and see if I could get two.

We won't have the full picture until the non-tenders are known, because TR will comb those to add inexpensive depth to the organization. I would got after Jeff Keppinger (and probably start him at 2B), and Eric Chavez for the bench or platoon with Plouffe. There is still a major hole at short, but even with Florimon/Dozier at short, this could be a contending team as soon as next year - not a WS contender, but certainly a division contender.

Originally Posted by DAM DC Twins Fans

I go with competing in 2014 and planning for that now. The Twins have basically two tradeable players--Span/Revere (trade one keep the other as lead off CF) and Parmalee. Morneau is going into walk year with a big contract and concussion history--he will bring little. I would trade Justin for best offer (young prospect) and Span/Revere for pitching and keep Parmalee. Dont waste $$ on free agents--its a weak class--the top guys like Greinke wont come here. Jackson/Marcum not a big improvement.

Go with Florimon/dozier in the Middle INF. See what Plouffe gives us over a full season. Go with Gibson, Hendricks in the rotation and see if the are MLB pitchers. Second half of 2013--bring up Hicks, Arcia and Sano and see if they can be ready in 2014. If Gibson, Hendricks are non MLB ready--make trades at deadline and sign free agent pitchers next year.

Bring up Sano? The kids 19 and in A-ball. He's incredibly raw and there's no way he's ready by midseason. Fall 2014 at the soonest.

I don't know... I just want the Twins to win it all again and not just "compete" in the regular season and suck in the post-season like they have been doing this millennium.

I am pretty convinced that this cannot happen with the current front office and field leadership (it did not happen in the year they had the best record in baseball and the Cy Young and MVP winners plus a couple of other All-Stars.)

So, unless they change who is running it and how this team is being run, I am afraid they cannot compete at a high level. Adding an arm or a bat or two or three will not cut it.... So I think that they could get rid of their aging player who have trading value and are in the end of their contracts (Morneau, Span, Willingham, Doumit, Carroll), get some young arms, get some of the kids up to play ball.

No reason the Twins can't compete for the division next year given the weak state of it.
And they should always be trying to compete. I don't buy into the whole idea of going into the tank and aiming to compete in 3-5 years. You think there's a problem with lack of accountability now, wait until you see what happens when you start conceding seasons from the outset.

And how many of these multi-year rebuilding efforts actually work anyway? How often do you see teams win the World Series following a path laid out 5 years earlier?

Improving the team today and building for tomorrow do not have to be mutually exclusive. You can, and should, do both.

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

And how many of these multi-year rebuilding efforts actually work anyway? How often do you see teams win the World Series following a path laid out 5 years earlier?

Here is the thing:

The Twins have not won a WS since 1991 (this is 21 years ago). The Marlins have won 2 in that span with build up and burn down plans...

Let's be honest, they can compete next year if they sign 2-3 starting pitchers from the top 10 free agents available, and trade an OF or OF prospect for a MIF. But, does anyone think they'll spend that money? Really, they can be competitive next year if the payroll is 115-120. But, I would be my salary against my kid's allowance that they don't spend the money. So, it is really a matter of will, nothing more or less.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

And how many of these multi-year rebuilding efforts actually work anyway? How often do you see teams win the World Series following a path laid out 5 years earlier?

Here is the thing:

The Twins have not won a WS since 1991 (this is 21 years ago). The Marlins have won 2 in that span with build up and burn down plans...

---Yes, thank you, thrylos, I can do basic math. And while we're on the subject, that's less than 10% of the World Series winners in that span. And how many other "blow it up and rebuild from scratch for 3-5 years from now" efforts have failed? There have been a lot more than 2 in Kansas City and Pittsburgh alone.

So the Marlins notwithstanding, I don't view it as an approach with a recent track record of success.

We need to keep in mind that this was the worst team in the AL for the 2nd year in a row. That is a huge mountain to climb.

Secondly, this was the worst team in the AL in 2012 despite career years from Plouffe, Willingham, Diamond, Burton, Perkins and Doumit. Twins also received much better than expected health from Span, Mauer and Morneau. I think at a minimum you need to expect some major regression from half of these guys and if that is the case your baseline should be around 60 wins. They will need to sign 3-4 above average starters to even sniff 80 wins and does anyone think that is realistic?

This team needs to blow it up totally. Get a new GM you trust and trade your vets for low A power pitchers who have a chance to be impact players when the Twins next wave arrives.

People need a little more realistic view of the Twin's player values. Span, Mornaue, Doumit and Revere have little value to other teams so the best you can hope for is a C+ young SP prospect (think Wimmers). Willy might get you a B+ pitching prospect (think Berrios).

Bring in some exprienced middle infielders like nick punto, or marco scuturo in case we cant get derosa. Please god can we cut down on the unearned runs.

It doesn't have to be an either or decision. Giving PT to young players can help give them experience to build for the future and can also free up payroll to help the present. Signing FA's to 1yr contacts can help in the short term or they can be trading chips at the deadline to help build for the future. It's not either blow it up or go all in.

What's all this talk about trading Willingham? Willingham had 35 home runs this year – more than anyone else in a Twins uniform not named Killebrew. Why would they trade Willingham?

I would only consider trading Willingham for a 20-game winner. Otherwise it's not worth the loss of offense and the PR nightmare.

Don't even think about trading him for less than a 20-game winner.

Yes we need two SP and TWO middle infielders who can actually hit, oh, and FIELD.*

Span should bring a competent middle infielder. All others need to come via free agency. We can't gut the rest of our offense to get pitching.