09-17-2012, 09:52 PM #21
Florimon has not been very impressive defensively - the tools are there but the execution has not been.
That said....on what is this insanity about Dozier not getting a fair shot based on? Hell, the guy basically had a scholarship for about a month and a half before he was finally demoted.
09-17-2012, 09:59 PM #22
Who else is excited for the worst hitting middle infield in the league next season?
09-17-2012, 11:37 PM #23
09-17-2012, 11:39 PM #24
Question: does anyone else find Gardy's like of Jekyl and Hyde great/bad Florimon over the steady non-flashy consistency of Jamey Carroll a bit puzzling? What was the Castro/Bartlett nonsense about back in the day (I repressed that memory)?
09-18-2012, 12:01 AM #25
09-18-2012, 03:50 PM #26
So IOW, you want Nick Punto 2.0?
Did you just EXACTLY describe Nick Punto, who everyone wanted gone for years? He hit below Mendoza, handled the routine plays, and occasionally made the impossible. Those are some pretty low expectations for a new Twins starting SS, huh?
09-18-2012, 04:00 PM #27
I know I'm looking forward to another season of a .600 OPS middle infield. Which, disgusting as it may sound, would be an improvement. They've only managed a .589 OPS this season.
That's right, .589, in nearly 1,200 plate appearances. And yet there are people that don't think the middle infield requires attention?"Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
- Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's
09-18-2012, 04:19 PM #28
09-18-2012, 04:34 PM #29
I didn't do the math, just pulled up the BRef splits.
I've still got hope for Dozier at 2nd given that Gardy has apparently written him off at short.
Florimon is going to be 26 with a .670 minor league OPS, how much improvement is there to be had there? I'd be shocked if he can manage to do better than a low .600 OPS in his career."Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
- Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's
09-18-2012, 04:40 PM #30
Florimon might be a .650 OPS guy, and I don't expect much more. Let's say that Florimon, Dozier, and Carroll collectively produce a .650 OPS next year. Is that good enough improvement? I just REALLY don't trust the Twins' evaluation of FA middle infielders, so I don't know what they are going to do other than hope for Danny Santana and Levi Michael to have breakout seasons at AA.
09-18-2012, 04:41 PM #31
Competent 39 year old utility player or fringe 26 year old utility player as your starting shortstop next season? That's a real nail-biter for a franchise that will be fighting to avoid 90 losses for a third consecutive season next year.
It seems obvious that Florimon and Dozier or somebody else with even a faint whiff of potential should be starting in next year's middle infield. But maybe I'm missing something.
Without disputing that Carroll would probably represent at least a small improvement over those two at short, let me ask the Carroll backers this.
Why do you care?
Is it that you believe the Twins will be a contender in 2013 despite being a 90+ loss team with the 3rd worst run differential in MLB, no impact prospects ready to contribute in the majors next season, and a GM who has vowed not to make virtually ANY significant changes in 2013?
Or is it that you're reeeeeeally worried that they'll lose 90 again instead of just 88?
Last edited by LaBombo; 09-18-2012 at 04:47 PM.
09-18-2012, 06:14 PM #32
09-18-2012, 06:50 PM #33
09-18-2012, 10:36 PM #34
09-19-2012, 12:11 AM #35
09-19-2012, 12:22 AM #36
I'm specifically replying to this quote: "Im not going to worry about .240 or .210 at the plate. The difference will mean very little. I'm gonna try and be reasonable and say simply... Give me someone who can gobble up the routine stuff and make the near impossible play every once in awhile."
Did you just EXACTLY describe Nick Punto, who everyone wanted gone for years? He hit below Mendoza, handled the routine plays, and occasionally made the impossible. Those are some pretty low expectations for a new Twins starting SS, huh?[/QUOTE]
Ok... If the SS is Punto like... He's Punto like... But what I'm saying is... Good luck finding a SS who can hit in the off season... It maybe a case where SS Choice A hits .240 and SS choice B hits .210... .240 is better... I understand this... But... I'm not going to worry about an extra hit every 33 at bats from Player A... I'm not going to bring up OPS because Dozier seems like the only guy who can do the extra base thing... Kinda... And the FA choices are slim and underwhelming and will probably be competed for and therefore expensive.
In lieu of a real honest to goodness hitting Shortstop... I'll start the .210 guy if he plays like Punto in the field. Because that guy will go a long way to Helping us... And I mean... Helping us build a pitching staff.
We'd all love to be stacked like the Rangers... It isn't realistic right now. We are going to be a team with holes like almost every team in the league and I think you can survive the offensive SS hole we are almost sure to have... if... he can pick it and get it... in support of the pitching staff.
Priorities... We need to improve our pitching. We won't be able to trade for Andrus... If we do... That means that we didn't trade the package Andrus would require for Pitching.
I'm not condoning being sub par anywhere. I'm saying... Tulo ain't coming to town. Our pitching is more important and in even worse shape than MI... Fix the pitching as quickly as possible and a defensive SS will help the pitching fixing that is needed... By the time the Pitching is functional... Maybe a SS who can push the ball around the park and out of the park will be an option.
Im not going to waste my time hoping, wishing or expecting a big hitter at the 6 position in 2013... I'm going to waste my time hoping and wishing for Pitching and the structure to help the pitching succeed.
09-19-2012, 07:19 AM #37
How will Carroll not get 400 PA next year if the Twins plan on moving on with Plouffe, Florimon, and possibly Dozier as the middle/LS infield? That is a lead pipe cinch unless he gets hurt.
Dozier got a real fair shot and looked like the career minor leaguer he is destined to be. Plouffe is not the answer. He isn't any more accomplished than Dozier except he got hot for a month and hit some homers. Florimon is interesting. He looks to have the best package of skills in the organization. (of the players that are ML ready)
I don't disagree with Florimon having the inside track at SS at this point, unless some other option drops into the team's lap this off season.
Last edited by Wolfy; 09-19-2012 at 07:23 AM. Reason: spelling
09-19-2012, 07:25 AM #38
I'm not convinced that having the meager yet steady 2014 Carroll for $2m is the worst thing in the world. He could be a steadying hand for a young infield.
09-19-2012, 08:43 AM #39
09-19-2012, 08:58 AM #40
For one thing, I'm not a Carroll backer. I don't like him as a starter. He's a capable backup. But I like 39-year old Carroll better than 26-year old Florimon.
What I'd really like is for the Twins to find somebody outside their organization to play shortstop because I don't believe the Twins shortstop of the future is both a.) in the Twins system and b.) close enough to contribute in 2013.
My point was I've already seen enough of Florimon to know he's not the guy.