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I actually think De Vries has the potential to stick as a #4/#5 guy, he has a great walk rate, and is actually able to strike out a few guys. I'd much rather they give him a spot instead of wasting 3 million on a Marquis type, the Twins need to be focused on bringing in front of the rotation guys this off-season (#1/#2) I am pretty sure #3/#4/#5 can be filled out with Diamond, Gibson, Hendriks, DeVries, Baker etc.
I disagree completely. Cole De Vries is an excellent young pitcher. His rise through the minor leagues and now in the majors is a reflection on his mental approach to the game, which has been steadily improving.
Obviously, De Vries has no overpowering pitch. So, how is it that he gets guys out? I'd love to say, "simple..." but it ain't simple. It's complex, and sometimes subtle. De Vries is practicing the art of pitching, which means that he looks for ways to keep his team in a game, however he can. This involves a variety of factors.
He masks his delivery. Of course, lots of pitchers try to do that, and their success varies. De Vries is very good at it, because his stance on the mound is very consistent, his release point for each pitch is almost identical. Hitting depends a lot on pitch recognition, the earlier, the better. De Vries makes it very difficult to distinguish his curve from his fastball. Not impossible, but difficult.
He spots his pitches. Again, lots of pitchers do that, but De Vries is better than average at keeping the ball in the lower third of the zone and pitching to spots.
He fields his position. De Vries is excellent at fielding and good at holding runners. His delivery from the stretch is quick to the plate, and he doesn't appear to lose accuracy or velocity from the stretch.
It's easy to dismiss a guy like De Vries because he's never going to wow the crowd with high-90's fastballs or jug-handle curves. He just plugs along very carefully, doing all the little things that don't look fancy, but get the job done. At the end of the game, it's just another start where the Twins had a good chance to win.
I'm not saying you don't want guys with more impressive stuff, but if you don't want Cole De Vries on your pitching staff, you're being foolish. If nothing else, De Vries should be there to remind the whiz kids that pitching ain't all about how hard you throw the ball or how far you make the ball bend. It's an art, and the little things add up to wins.
In fact, the best local example of my point is Liam Hendriks. Better stuff than De Vries, yet he has zero wins so far. Imagine how much better Hendriks would be if he employed the same kind of disciplined, careful approach that De Vries uses. Unfortunately, you can't just turn it on. As De Vries discovered, it takes years to master all the little things.
Two earlier clunker starts have pushed his season ERA higher. Of the pitchers currently on the roster not named Diamond, he has the most quality starts. He has earned a scholarship for next year. Maybe scouting will catch up to him but it has not been so. The league has seen him for half a season. The scouts know what he can throw. He would appear to know how to pitch.
Cole De Vries is the type of back-of-the-rotation filler that teams can live and die by over the course of a season. He's basically the New Nick Blackburn. You ride him until the league catches up and then you shuffle him out of the rotation. If that never happens, great. You have a quality #4/5 pitcher on the cheap for several years.
But you never, ever sign that kind of guy to a multi-year deal.
Yes, DeVries should be given a rotation spot next year he has earned it. The Twins must trade for a top line starter...no top free agent will come here. Then Diamond at number 2, with DeVries (at least until either Gibson is ready or league figures him out) then Deduno, Hendricks, Blackburn, Walters fight for other spots. Hopefully we have seen the last of Baker and Pavano.
I really like De Vries' demeanor. He's a bulldog, like Jack Morris was. Quite the contrast to pansies like Slowey and Liriano.
I like how the kid battles with very little to work with in his quiver, the prototype "poor man's Greg Maddux", with the local-kid-made-good angle going for him, besides; it's a feel-good story in an otherwise year of one pitching disaster after another. He's earned a shot at a 2013 SP spot, but he definitely hasn't "earned a scholarship"- "scholarships" should be only set aside for guys with special elite talent- period. There is no pitcher on the current 25-man roster who employs that level of talent.Quote:
Originally Posted by old nurse
"Earned Scholarships", ala, Butera, Blackburn, et al, was the type of thinking that has led the Twins organization down this disastrous road to where they now reside.
I agree with you in terms of learning and fine tuning the trade. Hendriks is 23 and Australian meaning he has played significantly less baseball than his US or South American counterparts. He is there because he has very good results and deserves his opportunity from the list that is available. I just hope that the twins coaching staff dont see him as a finished product and therefore dont commit the time, energy and fine tuning that a young developing pitcher requires. Let's not forget that he climbed rapidly due to great results in the minors. I agree with so many people that he needs to get that first win and see what happens after that. To DPJ and his comments in relation to Hermsen and Hendriks in the minor league pitcher of the year nominations it is obvious that he has no or little idea about pathways and development!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo92107
My apologies for mixing posts (dig at DPJ) and not commenting on De Vries and his contribution. I agree that he has taken his opportunities and given his best shot and also deserves his opportunities. He has mixed his pitches very well and has been able to induce the batters to swing at pitches that would not be their ideal. He throws enough strikes and mixes it up with balls to keep batters off balance and unsure of whats coming. Reasonably smart pitch selection and location in my book!!
Then please explain it to me where I'm suppose to be jazzed that Liam Hendriks and BJ ****ing Hermsen are winners of this award. That alone should just make everyone on this board depressed as hell about the future of this club.Quote:
Originally Posted by Falcon25