Thread: Mackey: Twins lineup doing well without Span

1500ESPN's Phil Mackey presented a compelling case for why the Twins will look to trade center fielder Denard Span this offseason. In addition to the current playing situation with the emergence of Ben Revere and the need for starting pitching, I'm told that the relationship between the outfielder and the manager is not all duckies and bunnies.

It will be interesting to see how this plays out this winter.

They havent been using this OF as Willy isnt playin the OF....its been Doumit & Mastro. Gardy has always talked about how he loves defense, but he's always managed the opposite. As long as you catch the balls you get to, he could care less about any lack of range at any position.

Originally Posted by Parker Hageman

, I'm told that the relationship between the outfielder and the manager is not all duckies and bunnies.

.

What?!?

Please elaborate.

You can't just throw that out there. You don't have to divulge your sources but it would be great to hear more on that nugget you dropped.

I think this might come from Span not telling the medical staff or the manager how much he was hurt after the dive he took in August. It will be interesting to see how much he is used when he comes back. That being said, he should be used all the time and showcased for a winter trade, if he does not come back in time, it would almost have to be a spring training trade to get full value for him.

The lineup was at its best with Span, Revere, Mauer, Willingham, Morneau, Doumit, Plouffe, Dozier, Carroll. There is no disputing that.

Originally Posted by clutterheart

Originally Posted by Parker Hageman

, I'm told that the relationship between the outfielder and the manager is not all duckies and bunnies.

.

What?!?

Please elaborate.

You can't just throw that out there. You don't have to divulge your sources but it would be great to hear more on that nugget you dropped.

Last week, Jim Souhan stated on 1500 that the Twins were getting fed up with Span. Not surprisingly, Souhan did not give his source.
From time to time, the Twins have used Souhan as a back channel attack Dog.

Span is a good ballplayer and a bit better leadoff guy than Revere overall, but losing him in place of Revere is a minor dropoff. There is a replacement on the team (Revere) and more replacements in the pipeline. Trading Span is the lowest risk option in an attempt to get pitching for 2013 and beyond.

Lets hope we hear more about the Twins being "fed up" so they can drive his trade value down. They really need to hire a good used car salesman to talk about these guys they might trade.

Originally Posted by stringer bell

Span is a good ballplayer and a bit better leadoff guy than Revere overall, but losing him in place of Revere is a minor dropoff. There is a replacement on the team (Revere) and more replacements in the pipeline. Trading Span is the lowest risk option in an attempt to get pitching for 2013 and beyond.

The problem with trading Span is that he's had two straight injury riddled seasons and I wouldn't count on getting a lot back. We're certainly not getting a good starter back. The problem is that this might be the Twins way of saying that they are choosing to move Span and they sell low in the offseason to do it.

This trade deadline was the time to move Span, sadly, probably packaged with another player or two to really drive up value at the moment. Now, you compete against free agents, both great and adequate. And being injured again, although it is keeping him from plummeting his average like ti did lat season, raises questions. The Twins would probably be better served with more punch than speed in two of the outfield spots, and leav
ing the punchless middle infield intact.

I am not totally comfortable with Revere being a true replacement. That average has to be higher than .300 if he is going to be a leadoff batter. For the millionth time, if I knew that Gardy would move Mauer up to the 2nd spot in the lineup instead of putting Carroll, Escobar, et al. there, I would be fine with trading Span.

Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.

Originally Posted by Shane Wahl

I am not totally comfortable with Revere being a true replacement. That average has to be higher than .300 if he is going to be a leadoff batter. For the millionth time, if I knew that Gardy would move Mauer up to the 2nd spot in the lineup instead of putting Carroll, Escobar, et al. there, I would be fine with trading Span.

Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.

I think there is a bigger risk with moving Morneau. He has been mostly healthy, and he's over .800 in OPS--pretty hard numbers to replace. The nominal replacement is Parmelee who, if he hits all year like he has the last two Septembers, would be fine. I don't think I would consider Parm as much proven as Revere is. Morneau could put up boxcar numbers next year. I am not convinced that he will, but there certainly has been improvement over the course of this year. Finally, what the Twins really lack offensively is power. Moving Morneau would remove one of their top power threats.

Originally Posted by kab21

Originally Posted by stringer bell

Span is a good ballplayer and a bit better leadoff guy than Revere overall, but losing him in place of Revere is a minor dropoff. There is a replacement on the team (Revere) and more replacements in the pipeline. Trading Span is the lowest risk option in an attempt to get pitching for 2013 and beyond.

The problem with trading Span is that he's had two straight injury riddled seasons and I wouldn't count on getting a lot back. We're certainly not getting a good starter back. The problem is that this might be the Twins way of saying that they are choosing to move Span and they sell low in the offseason to do it.

I wouldn't consider Span's 2012 "injury riddled". He missed 9 games with an injury and will miss 15 more days before he returns. It is absolutely in the Twins' best interests to play Span the rest of the year and bring his value up.

By the way, rotating 7 (Willingham,Span, Revere, Morneau, Doumit, Parmelee, and Mauer) guys in 6 spots is not totally difficult, esp. if Willingham moves to right field, primarily. Always having one of them available on the bench would be nice, actually.

Signing two FA good SP pitchers for $25 million a year total would be one way to get around trading anybody . . .

given that Willingham is their largest free agent contract ever, and Ryan has said the free agent pitching market is thin, why would you expect them to sign two big time free agent pitchers? Has any team ever done that in one off season?

Originally Posted by stringer bell

I wouldn't consider Span's 2012 "injury riddled". He missed 9 games with an injury and will miss 15 more days before he returns. It is absolutely in the Twins' best interests to play Span the rest of the year and bring his value up.

Perhaps injury riddled isn't correct but he's missed 32 games with an uncertain return date. This is certainly going to be considered by other GM's.

Originally Posted by shanewahl

Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.

I don't know what you expect to get from trading Morneau but it's not nearly what you expect.

Souhan is an idiot. I don't know why you would quote him considering that station is not listenable. If you listened to KFAN, or just PA, that is the real news. The other guys in town are just idiots. And they don't talk sports most of the time. I hate turning on a radio station and hearing talk about the Law or talk about pop culture. Why can't we just talk about the twins all day long, throw in some vikings, throw in ALOT of Lynx talk, sprinkle in some Rubio. Boom you've got a full show. Instead we have top 10 lists related to stupid things people do. Get on another station. Minnesota radio is the WORST...except for PA

Originally Posted by Shane Wahl

I am not totally comfortable with Revere being a true replacement. That average has to be higher than .300 if he is going to be a leadoff batter. For the millionth time, if I knew that Gardy would move Mauer up to the 2nd spot in the lineup instead of putting Carroll, Escobar, et al. there, I would be fine with trading Span.

Still seems that the most obvious move is trading Morneau for pitching. Very little if any drop in defense, and likely only some drop in power.

Revere will be a decent stop gap at worst, Hicks should be ready to man CF within a year/1.5 years.

Originally Posted by Winston Smith

Lets hope we hear more about the Twins being "fed up" so they can drive his trade value down. They really need to hire a good used car salesman to talk about these guys they might trade.

This.

They've seemingly been poised to trade Span for more than a year. Never got it done. And NOW we're starting to hear rumors that the team is disgruntled with him -- when he still has several years and an option year left on his contract?

How does that make ANY sense at all?

PA is, by a mile, the most vile and vomit-inducing cretin to ever be given control of the airwaves. He's an empty-headed jock-sniffer of the highest order.