08-25-2012, 10:14 AM #1
Was Morneau the Dodgers' first choice?
Per the LA Times story on the Red Sox/Dodgers deal (hat tip Phil Mackey):
"A four-time All-Star first baseman, Gonzalez was the prize in the deal. The Dodgers inquired about him leading up to the July 31 nonwaiver trade deadline and approached the Red Sox again after a failed attempt to land Minnesota Twins first baseman Justin Morneau last week."
My first thought was, "Did the Twins refuse to trade Morneau and, if so, why?" But then the story just says the Dodgers failed to land him. Every AL team and most NL teams would have to pass on Morneau before the Dodgers would get the waiver claim. Would be interesting to know if he was claimed by someone else (Toronto maybe?) and that prevented the deal from going through.
08-25-2012, 10:16 AM #2
It would have been a salary dump, and frankly I wouldn't have liked it.
The dodgers have proven they dont give a damn about taking on money.
08-25-2012, 10:20 AM #3
I wouldn't have liked it if the Twins had just let Morneau and his salary go for a waiver claim to dump salary, either. But with some kind of pitching prospect in return as well? Might make sense and at this point I wouldn't begrudge Morneau from wanting to get in to a post-season situation.
08-25-2012, 11:25 AM #4
The Dodgers were looking a Morneau as a pickup if the Twins were dumping salary. There offer included none of the Dodgers top prospects, so TR was correct to turn it down. The deal the Dodgers did now could come back to bite them in the future, but this deal will not be evalutated for 2 - 3 years. Dodgers came out OK if Carl Crawford returns to his Tampa Bay form, otherwise this is probably a bad deal for the Dodgers, but they wanted to make the postseason.
08-25-2012, 11:30 AM #5
as a salary dump, not interested at all. Getting a DeLoRosa/Webster type prospect back also....grrrrrr. Its hard to argue it tho unless we know who MN turned down as prospects or wait & see what type of deal they get this winter (IF they deal him)
Earlier when Pitt azquired Wandy Rodriguez, Dan Gladden hinted hard on the radio that the Twins turned down the same prospect deal for Frankie & got the 2 from the Sox instead. Easier to argue that one (ambivilant on that one myself) as you can compare.
08-25-2012, 01:11 PM #6
Totally disappointed by what Ryan did not do at the trading deadline and in August. Missing trading Morneau is a huge mistake. Very disappointed.-----
Blogging Twins since 2007 at The Tenth Inning Stretch
08-25-2012, 01:32 PM #7
Or to put it another (simplified) way, if given the choice of going into 2013 with Morneau + SP's off the discount rack, or Parmalee + $14 million to go chase SP, I think they're better off with the latter. But we'll see.
It's also possible LA wanted MIN to eat some salary. That would be a different issue, potentially.
08-25-2012, 01:40 PM #8
As JC mentioned, we don't really know anything other than the Dodgers wanted Morneau. I don't blame Ryan for not dealing him for nothing at the July deadline. As for August, we don't know if he would have cleared waivers all the way to the Dodgers. And if he did, maybe again, the Dodgers may have been trying to get him for nothing.
I'm all for dealing Morneau for a decent pitching prospect, handing the reigns over the Chris Parmelee and using that $14 million on two free agent pitchers.
08-25-2012, 02:48 PM #9
I'm also mad at Terry Ryan for not selling low on Morneau! He could have saved some money! Mar!
08-25-2012, 02:56 PM #10
08-25-2012, 02:58 PM #11
Well first of all let's all be honest here.. The center piece of the trade is Nick Punto!......
Okay let me start over.. I think this is a great trade for both teams but more so the Red Sox. They now have a great rotation set up for years to come. Matt Barnes is a projected 1-2 starter. They still have Lester, Buckholz, Doubront, and Morales. Now they add 2 guys who project to be solid 2-4 starters. With all the money coming off the books on top of Dice-K, big papi, and Youk's contracts that's a lot of money to reload with.
Now let me talk about why this is good for the Twins. First of all I doubt there was anything offered worth noting for Morneau so I'm glad we still have him. I do believe we need to look at rebuilding as the goal for the offseason. Easy to say obviously but this move by the red sox opens up another door for the Twins IMO. Without going into detail of exact players and prospects in return.. This now makes a 3rd team that the twins can seriously talk to about a big trade come this winter. The other 2 being the Braves and the Phillies. All 3 teams have very inticing high end pitching prospects(with the Sox and Braves also having coveted young shortstops) and all 3 have great motivation to pull the trigger. The Phillies and Red Sox both have to reload to keep their fan base happy. Willingham and Span would be a perfect fit for the Phillies lineup and would (in their mind) put them into title contention. As for the Sox we can basically offer them 70HR and 200RBI with the hammer and Canadian. As for the Braves.. Bourn is leaving and they're going to move Prado to third next year so they will have the same holes the phillies have to fill in the outfield and they'd like to do it without spending a lot of cash. Getting Willingham and Span to fill out their already potent lineup would surge them to the top of the NL.
From these 3 options.. The team I'd like most to deal with is the Braves due to the type of return we could receive. This Boston trade creates more demand for our players.. which is great! All of our top prospects are either outfielders or corner infielders. This winter we need to use the assets we have.. To balance out our future (pitching and middle infielders).. So that we can possibly have a 10 year contender come 2015(crosses fingers for 2014). To sign a couple middle of the road starters and keep the nucleus we have now would just make for at best a .500 team and hold back the franchise even longer.
The hard part will be the business aspect. Moving big names means less tickets being sold. Which means less revenue. As a business owner myself there will have to be a commitment and belief that the right moves will eventually pay off and when it does.. The fans will once again fill the seats. I wouldn't mind reducing payroll for a couple years if it means we're going in the right direction. Lot of people forget the 2010 Rangers' payroll was under 60 million and they did pretty well for themselves. So to recap.. Good trade Boston!
08-25-2012, 06:10 PM #12
Looking at what Boston got back, I'm glad the Twins kept Justin. I'd like to see him get a reasonable extension and spend his entire career as a Twin. If the Twins want to keep him, they should work on it now, because Morneau will have a big season next year.
Loyalty is often thrust upon the player as a responsibility, how about management taking a turn?
Justin could age gracefully into full time DH duties, and provide a good bat in the middle of the lineup for years to come.
Last edited by Monkeypaws; 08-25-2012 at 06:13 PM.
08-25-2012, 06:28 PM #13
This team is close to 60 games under over the last 2 years so why would you want to make changes now? Aren't we kind of on a roll?
08-25-2012, 06:33 PM #14
08-25-2012, 06:39 PM #15
08-25-2012, 07:05 PM #16"...after a failed attempt..."
1) The Dodgers claimed him but someone else did with a better record.
2) The Dodgers claimed him and had rights but couldn't work out a trade.
3) No team claimed him and they couldn't work out a trade.
If its #1, fine; there is at least one other team interested in Morneau at $14M next year.
If it's #2, it means the Twins didn't take advantage of a chance to unload $14M of salary next year. I don't know if that's wise, but it's probably good news that they didn't feel like they HAD to do so.
If it's #3, then the fan base (and maybe the front office) needs a reality check. If no team is willing to claim him in the middle of a pennant race without any compensation, then what are the chances of actually getting a pitching prospect?
I don't know which it was. I hope we learn more about this.
08-25-2012, 07:30 PM #17
1. They were requesting a left handed power hitting first baseman with around a .810 OPS.
2. They were willing to absorb the contract of a pitcher who had previous success but was now performing well under salary value.
3. They were willing to absorb the contract of a poor utility fielder.
4. They were not requiring much of the offloaded contracts to be paid for by the team sending them out.
5. They were willing to send out some prospects despite all of the conditions above.
I don't know where the Red Sox and Terry Ryan took their trade talks but I could argue that a package of Morneau, Blackburn, and Nishioka compares in many ways to Gonzalez, Beckett, Punto, and Crawford. In some ways it might be considered better since it involves over $200 million less in future money, although it would have less upside to go along with the lower risk. Given our current knowledge I am inclined to think that Ryan didn't look into the Dodgers options enough and the Red Sox were able to swoop in and take advantage.
08-25-2012, 07:53 PM #18
As I stated in my essay above I'm 100% for rebuilding and shedding some money to invest in other parts of the ball club but I'm okay with not rushing to trade our assets.
Morneau is building his value daily. His OPS is now back over .800 and it's likely to approach .850 by seasons end. The market will be small but there will be one. Boston stands out now.. Considering his projected production at Fenway would be huge. .900+ OPS when healthy. Tampa also would be an option but we would have to take on most of his salary. The return may be nice though if we can add pieces around him in the trade. Think James Shields.
Willingham and Span will also have big value. Outside of Hamilton and big Papi there are no FA hitters with 30+ HR power. Span will be the second best lead off hitter "available" behind Bourn. To top it off the club friendly contracts won't hurt.
A lot more gets done in the offseason anyway.. When all 30 teams still have hope and are looking to build a winner.
08-25-2012, 08:30 PM #19
Yes, Morneau, Blackbum, Toshi and throw in Benson and you have a $200 million savings. The Twins get four prospects and a 1st base rental for part of a season. The Red Sox pulled off an awesome salary dump. Add in no Ortiz for next season and they will be wisely spending money in 2013......
08-25-2012, 08:54 PM #20
in this thread; A Bunch of people who have no idea what the twins were offered acting like they know .
I've said it before, i'll say it again. You have ZERO idea what happens in a MLB front office.