Thread: Was Morneau the Dodgers' first choice?

Its pretty easy to deduce, that if the Dodgers were in on Morneau, that few if any teams are interested in him and so any trade would not involve a high upside pitching prospect as so many in this zone are wishing for.

From the perspective that Morneau to the Dodgers would've been mainly just a salary dump, I'm glad the Twins held out. Morneau's production is picking up, meaning that there's a good chance we could get legitimate prospects for him next year if he continues to put it together. Sell high, my friends.

we cut 18 million from last years payroll and none went to starting pitching , you think that if they dumped justins 14 million they would spend 14 million on pitching???

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

As JC mentioned, we don't really know anything other than the Dodgers wanted Morneau. I don't blame Ryan for not dealing him for nothing at the July deadline. As for August, we don't know if he would have cleared waivers all the way to the Dodgers. And if he did, maybe again, the Dodgers may have been trying to get him for nothing.

I'm all for dealing Morneau for a decent pitching prospect, handing the reigns over the Chris Parmelee and using that $14 million on two free agent pitchers.

14 million on 2 starting pitchers? you looking to resign marquis and perhaps clemens...a starters going to cost 14million for 1 and maybe more...if your looking at a front of the rotation guy

Originally Posted by johnnydakota

14 million on 2 starting pitchers? you looking to resign marquis and perhaps clemens...a starters going to cost 14million for 1 and maybe more...if your looking at a front of the rotation guy

14 million is significant if they budget it right and have a plan. If they're willing to invest 5-6 years.. Edwin Jackson should be in the 10-12 million per year range. I think it would be a solid investment considering you can pretty much plug him in for 200 innings a year. Then you have 2-4 million for a Kevin Millwood type investment as a stopgap for a healthy Kyle Gibson in 2014. They also have Pavano, Liriano, Baker, Capps, Marquis contracts coming off the books. 25M+

Originally Posted by jharaldson

We don't know the specific details of what was on the table but knowing now what the Dodgers gave up to the Red Sox we know what they were willing to give up during negotiations:

1. They were requesting a left handed power hitting first baseman with around a .810 OPS.
2. They were willing to absorb the contract of a pitcher who had previous success but was now performing well under salary value.
3. They were willing to absorb the contract of a poor utility fielder.
4. They were not requiring much of the offloaded contracts to be paid for by the team sending them out.
5. They were willing to send out some prospects despite all of the conditions above.

I don't know where the Red Sox and Terry Ryan took their trade talks but I could argue that a package of Morneau, Blackburn, and Nishioka compares in many ways to Gonzalez, Beckett, Punto, and Crawford. In some ways it might be considered better since it involves over $200 million less in future money, although it would have less upside to go along with the lower risk. Given our current knowledge I am inclined to think that Ryan didn't look into the Dodgers options enough and the Red Sox were able to swoop in and take advantage.

1. Gonzales is better than Morneau. Gonzales had to play in a huge park and still outhit Morneau over his career. Less injury concerns as well. Gonzales is certainly a long term piece for the Dodgers and Morneau would've been a riskier one.
2. The fact you're even comparing Blackburn and Beckett is absurd. Beckett is a guy who has flirted with being an ace, Blackburn has flirted with being a league average pitcher. Blackburn has no value.
3. Punto can field his position, Nishioka can't. Again, Punto at least has marginal value whereas Nishi doesn't.
4. That's because the Dodgers are clearly in spend mode. The Magic Johnson group pretty clearly doesn't care about payroll at this point.
The Dodger's bought low on 3 guys who very well could be All Stars and major cogs in a WS run.

How can you be dissappointed that Ryan "missed" on trading Morneau when you don't have the slightest clue what was "missed" in terms of a return? Or are you just looking to express dissappointment again, thrylos?

What have any of you heard that lead you to believe the Twins are interested in "dumping salary"? The last I read, Ryan was quite clear in saying that the budget will not be a hinderance as he continues to fix things.

My guess is that they're not going to trade Morneau unless they receive adequate talent in return. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them agree to absorb part of the $14M to close a deal.

I know I'm in the minority, but I believe they will spend big for an Edwin Jackson- type top of the rotation FA starter this winter.

The Twins seem like a very static organization right now. With that in mind, my prediction is they keep Morneau and end up seeing him leave to FA after another disappointing season next year for the Twins. They may not spend on starting pitching but they should, otherwise we're just "Sitting Still for Sano."

Originally Posted by birdwatcher

How can you be dissappointed that Ryan "missed" on trading Morneau when you don't have the slightest clue what was "missed" in terms of a return? Or are you just looking to express dissappointment again, thrylos?

What have any of you heard that lead you to believe the Twins are interested in "dumping salary"? The last I read, Ryan was quite clear in saying that the budget will not be a hinderance as he continues to fix things.

My guess is that they're not going to trade Morneau unless they receive adequate talent in return. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them agree to absorb part of the $14M to close a deal.

I know I'm in the minority, but I believe they will spend big for an Edwin Jackson- type top of the rotation FA starter this winter.

I'm with you Bird.

If you do the math... Terry Ryan has to take a run at one decent free agent starter. I don't know if a Free Agent Starter will sign with the Twins but Terry Ryan pretty much has to take a run at good one. Too much money coming off the books and too glaring a need to ignore the free agent pool this off season.

I don't care about past track record. The past was the past and this is now.

As for Morneau... There is the off season and the next trade deadline. No reason to move him unless it's for a pitcher and a good one.


I'd also like to register a vote for death to the Rollover Pop Ups. I certainly understand the right to make money. Advertise away and more power to ya... But something less intrusive please.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Originally Posted by birdwatcher

How can you be dissappointed that Ryan "missed" on trading Morneau when you don't have the slightest clue what was "missed" in terms of a return? Or are you just looking to express dissappointment again, thrylos?

What have any of you heard that lead you to believe the Twins are interested in "dumping salary"? The last I read, Ryan was quite clear in saying that the budget will not be a hinderance as he continues to fix things.

My guess is that they're not going to trade Morneau unless they receive adequate talent in return. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them agree to absorb part of the $14M to close a deal.

I know I'm in the minority, but I believe they will spend big for an Edwin Jackson- type top of the rotation FA starter this winter.

I'm with you Bird.

If you do the math... Terry Ryan has to take a run at one decent free agent starter. I don't know if a Free Agent Starter will sign with the Twins but Terry Ryan pretty much has to take a run at good one. Too much money coming off the books and too glaring a need to ignore the free agent pool this off season.

I don't care about past track record. The past was the past and this is now.

As for Morneau... There is the off season and the next trade deadline. No reason to move him unless it's for a pitcher and a good one.


I'd also like to register a vote for death to the Rollover Pop Ups. I certainly understand the right to make money. Advertise away and more power to ya... But something less intrusive please.

I second the motion on the Popup Rollover thingies--they are a big pain in the butt and make navigating this site almost impossible.

Please stop considering Edwin Jackson an ACE pitcher. I live in Washington suburbs. The Nats have THREE ACE pitchers, Strasberg, Zimmerman and Gio. Edwin Jackson is not an ACE--he is Carl Pavano or Nick Blackburn or Scott Baker on their good days. I would not give Jackson $10million--not even sure if I would give him 5million. I would actually take Detwieler off the Nats staff before Jackson--Detweiler has more up side.

Again, we have no idea what Ryan was offered for Justin. I am anxious to trade him and get the 14 million and move Parmalee to first. Justin is one concussion from retirement--which other teams know. His value will never be higher.

Originally Posted by DAM DC Twins Fans

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Originally Posted by birdwatcher

How can you be dissappointed that Ryan "missed" on trading Morneau when you don't have the slightest clue what was "missed" in terms of a return? Or are you just looking to express dissappointment again, thrylos?

What have any of you heard that lead you to believe the Twins are interested in "dumping salary"? The last I read, Ryan was quite clear in saying that the budget will not be a hinderance as he continues to fix things.

My guess is that they're not going to trade Morneau unless they receive adequate talent in return. Frankly, I wouldn't be at all surprised to see them agree to absorb part of the $14M to close a deal.

I know I'm in the minority, but I believe they will spend big for an Edwin Jackson- type top of the rotation FA starter this winter.

I'm with you Bird.

If you do the math... Terry Ryan has to take a run at one decent free agent starter. I don't know if a Free Agent Starter will sign with the Twins but Terry Ryan pretty much has to take a run at good one. Too much money coming off the books and too glaring a need to ignore the free agent pool this off season.

I don't care about past track record. The past was the past and this is now.

As for Morneau... There is the off season and the next trade deadline. No reason to move him unless it's for a pitcher and a good one.


I'd also like to register a vote for death to the Rollover Pop Ups. I certainly understand the right to make money. Advertise away and more power to ya... But something less intrusive please.

I second the motion on the Popup Rollover thingies--they are a big pain in the butt and make navigating this site almost impossible.

Please stop considering Edwin Jackson an ACE pitcher. I live in Washington suburbs. The Nats have THREE ACE pitchers, Strasberg, Zimmerman and Gio. Edwin Jackson is not an ACE--he is Carl Pavano or Nick Blackburn or Scott Baker on their good days. I would not give Jackson $10million--not even sure if I would give him 5million. I would actually take Detwieler off the Nats staff before Jackson--Detweiler has more up side.

Again, we have no idea what Ryan was offered for Justin. I am anxious to trade him and get the 14 million and move Parmalee to first. Justin is one concussion from retirement--which other teams know. His value will never be higher.

Morneau has reached peak value? Finishing the season healthy, and continuing to improve will make him more valuable in an offseason trade. Also, in an offseason trade all teams are theoretically an option, not just the current contenders.

There's no difference between a salary dump midseason and a salary dump in the following off-season. Do you really think the team is going to go, hey we saved 2 million in salary let's roll that over to next year? No. A mid-season salary dump is salvaging profitability off a season that is going in the tank, not about future payroll flexibility.

Twins will get more value for Morneau in a trade in the off-season as long as he doesn't get another concussion, a risk the Twins should be willing to take.

Originally Posted by DAM DC Twins Fans

Please stop considering Edwin Jackson an ACE pitcher. I live in Washington suburbs. The Nats have THREE ACE pitchers, Strasberg, Zimmerman and Gio. Edwin Jackson is not an ACE--he is Carl Pavano or Nick Blackburn or Scott Baker on their good days. I would not give Jackson $10million--not even sure if I would give him 5million. I would actually take Detwieler off the Nats staff before Jackson--Detweiler has more up side.

I've watched a lot of Edwin over the years.. Even from his days in Tampa where he was very erratic. I would agree he's not an "ace" but he is a very good pitcher. He is about as solid of a #3 as you can have unless you're blessed like the Nats or Giants. This will be the 4th consecutive year he pitches 200+ innings with a sub 4 ERA in those 4 years while being shipped from team to team. The most promising thing is how he pitched against the AL while with the Tigers and White Sox.. showing he's capable of pitching in our division. Other than Greinke there's no free agent I'd rather have

Originally Posted by jharaldson

but I could argue that a package of Morneau, Blackburn, and Nishioka compares in many ways to Gonzalez, Beckett, Punto, and Crawford. In some ways it might be considered better since it involves over $200 million less in future money, although it would have less upside to go along with the lower risk. Given our current knowledge I am inclined to think that Ryan didn't look into the Dodgers options enough and the Red Sox were able to swoop in and take advantage.

I'm really hopeing this is sarcasm, because the only way I could see someone believing this is a better package is if they are high on something. Blackburn was the worst pitcher and baseball, and Nishi wasn't even MLB caliber.

I think that the Dodgers were looking for star power even more than they were looking for immediate impact players, and Adrian Gonzalez (particularly as a Latino guy from California), Carl Crawford, and Josh Beckett offered that much more than Morneau. Gonzalez also has a more promising future than Morneau, despite some nagging injuries of his own.

People keep saying "Well, I want to keep Morneau because why should I care if the Pohlads save money in a salary dump?" You're missing the point. The Pohlads are going to spend what they're going to spend, irrespective of one player. If Morneau's 14 million dollars for next year freed up means that we have that money to reapply towards the pitching staff long-term, then you do care how the Pohlads spend their money. I like Morneau a lot, but it just makes more sense in our situation to roll with Parmelee and pick up some $1-4 million vet to insure us at that position.

Morneau's got 1 yr left on his contract. There is no reason to believe freeing up an add'l $14m for one season is going to help the Twins sign FA pitching for 2013.

Anything worth spending anywhere near that kind of money on is going to require at least a 4 yr commitment, probably 5 or 6. They have plenty of salary space available in 2013 if they want to spend it, more than they need to sign as much pitching as they want. The problem isn't having the money available, the problem is, the Pohlad's aren't going to spend it anyway. Dumping Morneau is just another $10M in their pocket, plus $4M wasted on another Livan or Marquez.

If you get a good return, I can understand trading Morneau. Dumping him for "salary relief," when said relief isn't needed, is foolish baseball wise and fans shouldn't put up with it.

Originally Posted by USAFChief

Morneau's got 1 yr left on his contract. There is no reason to believe freeing up an add'l $14m for one season is going to help the Twins sign FA pitching for 2013.

Anything worth spending anywhere near that kind of money on is going to require at least a 4 yr commitment, probably 5 or 6. They have plenty of salary space available in 2013 if they want to spend it, more than they need to sign as much pitching as they want. The problem isn't having the money available, the problem is, the Pohlad's aren't going to spend it anyway. Dumping Morneau is just another $10M in their pocket, plus $4M wasted on another Livan or Marquez.

If you get a good return, I can understand trading Morneau. Dumping him for "salary relief," when said relief isn't needed, is foolish baseball wise and fans shouldn't put up with it.

We'll see if you still agree with that when Morneau puts in a few more good weeks and they re-up him for the "bargain" price of $8 to $10 million a year. I wouldn't put it past this organization. For better or worse, they are loyal to "their guys".

If we were to look at Mornie, without all of the things he has done, without the concussion OR the MVP, just look at this season. What is a 31 year old player, hitting 272, with an OPS of 800, worth on the free agent market. May I add 17 dingers and 61 RBI's in just over 400 AB's. I am not sure he is worth that 8-10 million. Now his defense I would stay is above average, but is no longer plus.

I just think that this offseason, we will trade him for some young pitching or a B to B+ prospect. I would be very content trading him for guy with a #2 or 3 starter ceiling. I still love the guy and we still retire his number someday, but I see him miss on those hanging breaking balls he used to crush just way too often.