Thread: Twins outright Blackburn, Nishioka

Maybe everyone but me knows this but... looking up "outrighting"... A player can be outrighted, without his permission, only once. A player with five years major league experience cannot be outrighted, regardless whether he as been previously outrighted, without his permission. According to Baseball-Reference, Blackburn debuted 9/3/2007 which would be just under the wire. He did get demoted for a while in 2010 which would subtract from that too, I think. If he had five years experience, he would have to be released (if he did not give his permission).

Originally Posted by Curt

Maybe everyone but me knows this but... looking up "outrighting"... A player can be outrighted, without his permission, only once. A player with five years major league experience cannot be outrighted, regardless whether he as been previously outrighted, without his permission. According to Baseball-Reference, Blackburn debuted 9/3/2007 which would be just under the wire. He did get demoted for a while in 2010 which would subtract from that too, I think. If he had five years experience, he would have to be released (if he did not give his permission).

Correct in all. Any player with five years service can refuse a minor league assignment, option or outright (except for rehab assignments).

Originally Posted by sbknudson

So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

They put them through irrevocable waivers (not August trade waivers - things get confusing this time of the year) and nobody claimed him. I am pretty sure that they will do something with them before 2013. They are actively looking for a Japanese team to pick up Nishioka's contract (and that would be a win-win situation I think). Otherwise, Rochester will have a $8.5 M investment in 2013. I suspect that Blackburn might get an invite in Spring training...

No one wants them. If a team claimed Blackburn, they would be on the hook for his remaining salary and all his salary next year. The call will be if he and the Twins stay buddies next year. I think he either walks away from his salary or stays under Twins control next year, too. The Twins need to see if they can sell Toshi to Japan.

Will Pavano be back? Two starts before 9/1 to see if he can help a contender? At this point, might as well just given him his release. Worry about finding a spot for Walters. And what about Gray. Hasn't he worn out his welcome?

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Otherwise, Rochester will have a $8.5 M investment in 2013.

The Twins will pay that. $8.5 M would cover Rochester's payroll for twenty years.

Sad to see this happen to Blackburn, but if he's making statements like that, this is probably for the best.

I remember in 2010 a couple weeks before he was sent down to Rochester I was within earshot of him when he was signing a ball for a kid and the parent said "look, there is a real major league baseball player!" to his son before Blackburn took the ball to sign it, and when he heard that, Blackburn said "Kind of".

The real question is who does Jeff Gray have leverage on if these two went before him.

Originally Posted by sbknudson

So what happens with them next? The lead entry in the thread says they are being outrighted. I guess my only question is why are we even keeping them in the organization instead of releasing them? Is it just salary reasons - we're paying them so maybe the Triple-A club can use them? Are they being held in reserve in case the sky falls and they are needed in the future?

You're paying the guy. Why not keep him around in case he rebounds? Now that he's off the 40 man roster, it doesn't matter one lick whether he's playing for you, playing for the Padres, or sitting at home. He's not blocking anyone in the system. At that point, you may as well keep the guy around "just in case".

One little detail because the rules are kind of complicated. They did not get Designated For Assignment, they got outrighted. There are four types of waivers in baseball, all explained really well here (this is a must read and bookmark btw) :

Trade Waivers, Waivers for the purpose of granting a player his unconditional release (DFA), Outright Waivers and Option Waivers.

The first kind is revocable and happen only in August, the other 3 are irrevocable. The difference between DFA and ouright waivers is that if a veteran (Blackburn is that and Nishioka is not) refuses, in both cases he becomes a free agent, but in a DFA situation the team in on the hook for his contract while in Outright Waivers, if he refuses assignment he loses what is owed to him.

Thought to clarify that because it is way to complicated.

Originally Posted by Curt

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Otherwise, Rochester will have a $8.5 M investment in 2013.

The Twins will pay that. $8.5 M would cover Rochester's payroll for twenty years.

The Twins pay all players salaries in the minors. The local clubs just pay for facility-related things.

When I saw this in one of my blog feeds, I thought it was just speculation. Turns out it's true!! Guess it caught me a little off guard. I thought that the Twins would stick with Blackburn because he is owed so much next season. Glad that they made the right moves with both of these players at this point in their careers.

Originally Posted by sbknudson

Originally Posted by BeefMaster

I'd guess either of those reasons is behind it. Generally, if a player doesn't have enough seniority to decline a minor league assignment (which neither Nishi or Blackburn do), teams will go ahead and use them as AAA roster filler. You may as well get SOME value out of that sunk cost, and if nothing else they can buy when the team goes out to dinner. The Twins are generally good about granting a guy his release if he could get a shot with another team, but I'm reasonably certain neither of these guys are getting major league offers anytime soon.

The fact they have been outrighted means they must have cleared waivers, so you're probably right.

That doesn't necessarily mean no one wants them - it means no one wants them at their current salary. If someone wanted to sign Blackburn to a minor league deal (or, less likely, a major league contract for the minimum salary) in the offseason, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the Twins would grant him his release to pursue that.

I think it would be a smart idea to call up Vasquez to take his spot in the rotation. Why not give the guy you haven't seen yet this year a couple starts before Sep. 1st? Let Walters go another rehab start and Hendricks continue to work at a level where he's gaining confidence. What difference would it make to see Hendricks or Walters for 1-2 additional starts when we have a pretty good idea what they offer at the MLB level?

Now I'm waiting for the Gray/Slama flip...

I'd have to think that Hendricks gets teh call here. They need to see if the things he's worked on have helped a bit.

The Twins are still forced to pay for both Nishi and Blackburn, but at least now they aren't on the 40 man.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

I'd have to think that Hendricks gets teh call here. They need to see if the things he's worked on have helped a bit.

The Twins are still forced to pay for both Nishi and Blackburn, but at least now they aren't on the 40 man.

Vasquez is starting for Rochester tonight. I think that either Hendriks or Swarzak is making the start in Blackburn's position.

Originally Posted by Seth Stohs

I've been pushing to DFA Blackburn for over a year, and finally, it's happened. I thought I'd be happier.

Blackburn made far more money than most players who reach the Majors. It's not exactly a sob story. The guy can't pitch, so he was dropped off the 40-man. Pretty straightforward situation that happens all the time. His contract just delayed the inevitable.

Though I think this signifies the end of Blackburn for the Twins, I hope he is able to rebound in the future, perhaps if he gets it back together he can be a #5 type guy in the NL.

He obviously lacked the high end talent we would prefer, but when he was effective the guy always went out and gave us quite a few good performances while keeping his mouth shut unlike some of the other #5 pitchers we have had in the past. Plus, his game 163 will be remembered as a hell of a performance, and he seemed to be the one pitcher who wouldn't **** all over himself when they played in Yankee stadium. I still think he can figure out a way to get back to a 4.50 ERA type guy, that place probably isn't on the Twins though.

I would like to see Vazquez/Hendriks replace Duensing in the rotation. Put him back in the bullpen please.

Ah...Carlos Silva revisited.