Thread: Twins radio broadcasts moving to KTWN

So KTWN is going to be actively sending listeners to a competing station for Twins programming outside of the games? How does this make sense?

The Short Answer is: Because Cume is Shared... No Sense in Fighting it. Listeners overwhelmingly do not listen to one radio station only. It's best to recognize that and then work on ways to attract new cume to your station. The key is to not worry about where the Twins Audience is going outside of the broadcasts. The Key is that they are coming over for the broadcasts which gives you cume that you didn't have with your music format. Now you get both and both sets of cume add up to the overall total.

Yes... There is a trade off because you lose out on listening occasions and that effects the other half of the formula(TSL). However, the majority of Twins games are broadcast during low level listening periods.(Nights). So it ends up being a great trade.

The other key is the current state of KTWN... It's a 1.4 share... that is terrible... They are desperate to find a footing somewhere. The Twins alone will not provide enough to get them into elite status but it can get them a solid jump start in a key demo... 25-54 Male.

That's why I expect a format switch toward a format that appeals to that demo. If they can reach Top 3 in that demo... It could lead to increase Agency Buys and a higher cost per point. IE... More Revenue.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Listeners overwhelmingly do not listen to one radio station only.

They do when they want a specific programming. Never have I heard of a situation where official programming was split between multiple stations. Sure you can tune into KFAN for minuscule amount of Twins coverage, WCCO for their coverage, and ESPN 1500 for their coverage, but you tune into ESPN 1500 for the Twins sanctioned programming. The games, the shows, etc.

Now it will be split. This isn't deciding if you want to listen to Dan Cole, Reusse & Mackey or Chad Hartman for their take and time devoted to topics, this is you dial jumping to get official Minnesota Twins programming. As far as I can remember, a first here in MN, and I haven't heard of that elsewhere.

The fact that this is only guaranteed through 2013 tells me this is a experiment, whatever the reasons.

Originally Posted by BrentMpls

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Listeners overwhelmingly do not listen to one radio station only.

They do when they want a specific programming. Never have I heard of a situation where official programming was split between multiple stations. Sure you can tune into KFAN for minuscule amount of Twins coverage, WCCO for their coverage, and ESPN 1500 for their coverage, but you tune into ESPN 1500 for the Twins sanctioned programming. The games, the shows, etc.

Now it will be split. This isn't deciding if you want to listen to Dan Cole, Reusse & Mackey or Chad Hartman for their take and time devoted to topics, this is you dial jumping to get official Minnesota Twins programming. As far as I can remember, a first here in MN, and I haven't heard of that elsewhere.

The fact that this is only guaranteed through 2013 tells me this is a experiment, whatever the reasons.

The concept isn't new. Especially in NFL football. Here's a list. Not comprehensive... Not even close to comprehensive.

Dolphins football on Classic Rock WBGG
Ravens on Rock WIYY
Bengals on Rock WEBN
Browns on Rock WMMS
Steelers on Rock WDVE
Texans on Country KILT
Colts on Country WLHK
Chiefs on Classic Rock KCFX
Raiders on Modern Rock KITS
Chargers on Rock KIOZ
Packers on Top 40 WIXX
Falcons on Hot AC WSTR
Bucs on Countey WFUS

Now Football is one game a week as opposed to a full daily baseball schedule so from that standpoint it is somewhat unique.

But... Braves baseball is heard on flagship Classic Rock WNNX and many MLB teams broadcast to affiliates who are music formatted in rated markets. The Twins will be number two and if they get a ratings and revenue increase. More will come in the future. You can also find examples of NHL... NBA and College broadcasts on FM music stations. This train pulled out of the station quite some time ago.

Official Twins programming is not a format. It isn't even official. The Twins very smartly will accommodate the sports stations in town because they want and need top of the mind awareness and should provide it anytime and anywhere it is requested.

Twins programming wall to wall will not pay the bills. 1500 and KFAN are 13th and 15th in the market. The Twins are not their only topic. They need Twins Fans... Viking Fans... Gopher Fans... In the case of KFAN... They devote time to non sports and still don't come close to what KEEY, KDWB or KQRS does for audience levels.

There simply isn't enough of us Twins Freaks out there that want to hear about the Twins all day every day.

Also consider that MLB baseball is only 6 months year. You have to consider programming for the other 6 months. A game is only 4 hours a day out of 24. You need to consider programming for the other 20 hours. Once you consider that and consider that there are already two sports stations and they are low rated to boot. Becoming the third Sports station is a bad idea. You need a format that brings in bigger numbers and can do so... All day and all year.

Our Twins have become a strong supplement to other programming.

You have to jump around now and you will have to jump around in the future. The dream of a 24/7 Twins radio station would be an unworkable concept due to poor ratings unless its done on the Internet or a side channel.

Instead of having anything to do with 1500, they should just hire a bunch of us knuckleheads... I'll take an hour slot. Shouldn't be hard to divy up...

Of course, there might be a fight for who gets Gleeman and the Geek.

Yeah, that would garner a lot of ratings
Riverbrian, thanks for breaking this down. I learned about Cume and a lot more. You must work in the radio biz?
So, what format should KTWN throw down? Maybe "walk up" songs 20 hours a day?

Originally Posted by nokomismod

Yeah, that would garner a lot of ratings
Riverbrian, thanks for breaking this down. I learned about Cume and a lot more. You must work in the radio biz?
So, what format should KTWN throw down? Maybe "walk up" songs 20 hours a day?

I do

What Format? lol... I can't touch that one. I haven't seen enough data (demo breakdowns or research) to make that call nor would I do that for free if I did... lol

My advice in this area has value!!!

Jeremy... I'd listen to Twins Daily Radio. I might even spend some time hanging with the Thrylos show. Hopefully, he will have plenty of callers to counter his points. The outlandish commenter has done quite well in the talk radio genre.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

The concept isn't new. Especially in NFL football. Here's a list. Not comprehensive... Not even close to comprehensive.

Dolphins football on Classic Rock WBGG
Ravens on Rock WIYY
Bengals on Rock WEBN
Browns on Rock WMMS
Steelers on Rock WDVE
Texans on Country KILT
Colts on Country WLHK
Chiefs on Classic Rock KCFX
Raiders on Modern Rock KITS
Chargers on Rock KIOZ
Packers on Top 40 WIXX
Falcons on Hot AC WSTR
Bucs on Countey WFUS

That is fine and good, but I wasn't commenting on having the Twins games broadcast on a rock station - I was talking about how you will have to flip stations on Sundays to hear the manager show on AM 1500 and then to FM 96 for the game. I've never heard of having official programming split up like that.

Now having games broadcast on non-sports stations (in this case 'modern contemporary' or whatever the latest format for the struggling station is) is a whole 'nuther issue.

Also as you pointed out - football isn't baseball. Totally different and shouldn't be compared IMHO.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

But... Braves baseball is heard on...

I hope the Braves aren't a model for anything - despite having past success Atlanta area is notorious for having a poor fan base and being a bad sports town in general. Too many transplants and transients.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

You can also find examples of NHL... NBA and College broadcasts on FM music stations. This train pulled out of the station quite some time ago.

I'm sure it has - again not the issue I was talking about exactly. Also comparing other sports and other areas isn't apples to apples, but the times are a changin'. This is a first for this area.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Official Twins programming is not a format. It isn't even official. The Twins very smartly will accommodate the sports stations in town because they want and need top of the mind awareness and should provide it anytime and anywhere it is requested.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I never called it a format. The manager show, the hot stove show, and all the other official sanctioned Minnesota Twins subsidiary programming occurs because of the Twins.

The main point I was trying to make is its pretty odd that you have to switch bands and stations to obtain programming from a single source.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Twins programming wall to wall will not pay the bills. 1500 and KFAN are 13th and 15th in the market. The Twins are not their only topic. They need Twins Fans... Viking Fans... Gopher Fans... In the case of KFAN... They devote time to non sports and still don't come close to what KEEY, KDWB or KQRS does for audience levels.

Sports talk never has been as popular as listening to music, by shoehorning games onto stations that do not provide sports talk for ratings will kill off sports talk on the radio. With the internet there are places like this that will become more and more important for sports fans to get their fix (as if they weren't already due to the quality of content) but losing it still sucks.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

You have to jump around now and you will have to jump around in the future. The dream of a 24/7 Twins radio station would be an unworkable concept due to poor ratings unless its done on the Internet or a side channel.

Totally agree

Originally Posted by BrentMpls

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

The concept isn't new. Especially in NFL football. Here's a list. Not comprehensive... Not even close to comprehensive.

Dolphins football on Classic Rock WBGG
Ravens on Rock WIYY
Bengals on Rock WEBN
Browns on Rock WMMS
Steelers on Rock WDVE
Texans on Country KILT
Colts on Country WLHK
Chiefs on Classic Rock KCFX
Raiders on Modern Rock KITS
Chargers on Rock KIOZ
Packers on Top 40 WIXX
Falcons on Hot AC WSTR
Bucs on Countey WFUS

That is fine and good, but I wasn't commenting on having the Twins games broadcast on a rock station - I was talking about how you will have to flip stations on Sundays to hear the manager show on AM 1500 and then to FM 96 for the game. I've never heard of having official programming split up like that.

Now having games broadcast on non-sports stations (in this case 'modern contemporary' or whatever the latest format for the struggling station is) is a whole 'nuther issue.

Also as you pointed out - football isn't baseball. Totally different and shouldn't be compared IMHO.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

But... Braves baseball is heard on...

I hope the Braves aren't a model for anything - despite having past success Atlanta area is notorious for having a poor fan base and being a bad sports town in general. Too many transplants and transients.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

You can also find examples of NHL... NBA and College broadcasts on FM music stations. This train pulled out of the station quite some time ago.

I'm sure it has - again not the issue I was talking about exactly. Also comparing other sports and other areas isn't apples to apples, but the times are a changin'. This is a first for this area.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Official Twins programming is not a format. It isn't even official. The Twins very smartly will accommodate the sports stations in town because they want and need top of the mind awareness and should provide it anytime and anywhere it is requested.

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here. I never called it a format. The manager show, the hot stove show, and all the other official sanctioned Minnesota Twins subsidiary programming occurs because of the Twins.

The main point I was trying to make is its pretty odd that you have to switch bands and stations to obtain programming from a single source.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Twins programming wall to wall will not pay the bills. 1500 and KFAN are 13th and 15th in the market. The Twins are not their only topic. They need Twins Fans... Viking Fans... Gopher Fans... In the case of KFAN... They devote time to non sports and still don't come close to what KEEY, KDWB or KQRS does for audience levels.

Sports talk never has been as popular as listening to music, by shoehorning games onto stations that do not provide sports talk for ratings will kill off sports talk on the radio. With the internet there are places like this that will become more and more important for sports fans to get their fix (as if they weren't already due to the quality of content) but losing it still sucks.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

You have to jump around now and you will have to jump around in the future. The dream of a 24/7 Twins radio station would be an unworkable concept due to poor ratings unless its done on the Internet or a side channel.

Totally agree

One thng is for sure... I've heard the signal is a little challenged but for those who can hear it. The broadcasts will sound fantastic... On FM... Cracks of Bats... Smacks of Gloves... A whole new sound quality for baseball.

As far as Sports Talk and the future. Who knows... There are a lotta signals... Some will end up Sports... Cuz you have to do something different with all of them. The hope is that National Syndication doesn't take over like it has in smaller markets to save on overhead.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

One thng is for sure... I've heard the signal is a little challenged but for those who can hear it. The broadcasts will sound fantastic... On FM... Cracks of Bats... Smacks of Gloves... A whole new sound quality for baseball.

agreed. In Mankato, the long time Twins affiliate KTOE recently put up an FM simulcast of their AM station and listening to Twins game on the FM is awesome. The sound is crisp, it almost puts you at the ballpark.

While its no shock the Pohlads took the Twins to their own station, its somewhat shocking they are walking away from a sweetheart deal Hubbard was giving them ($1 mil per year, and the Twins kept all monies from advertising during the game).

Where I live, I can barely pick up 1500 (they need an affiliate network like what KFAN has) but I still listen to it more than I listen to the FAN.

Howdy,new guy here.
Any news on outstate coverage? I travel all over the state and 'back in the day' it was so easy when the good neighbor had the games.
KSTP fades in and out even in Delano where I live.Constantly searching for stations when in the hinterlands is my only concern.

It will be interesting to see what the Pohlads are paying the Pohlads for broadcast rights. The cynic in me thinks this is mostly about taking a little revenue out of the Twins stream and putting it in another asset's revenue stream.

Originally Posted by USAFChief

It will be interesting to see what the Pohlads are paying the Pohlads for broadcast rights. The cynic in me thinks this is mostly about taking a little revenue out of the Twins stream and putting it in another asset's revenue stream.

I'm not sure that's cynical at all. It may just be good business. If they can channel revenue from the Twins to their radio station, I suppose it could possibly affect where they stand in terms of revenue sharing, etc. Of course, it would also reduce the total revenue that they use to measure the "52%" from in order to establish a target payroll. But they wouldn't play that kind of game with their fanbase