Thread: Trade Parmelee?

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players...

Smart ones don't. Smart ones who know they're in a rebuilding phase don't. We're talking Twins. What's your point?

(hopefully obviously not a jab at you)

And besides, why not trade cheap and young for cheap and younger if your needs are better addressed? In this case, I don't think Parmelee's worth very much, so it's probably impossible to make a good trade.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players. Threads like this and the "Trade Revere" one are incredibly pointless.

The key difference is that I was advocating a trade of both Revere and Span based on what the market might be for each player, not because I want to keep around the old guard.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players. Threads like this and the "Trade Revere" one are incredibly pointless.

Sometimes they do, if they think that some combination of the following is in play:

-they think they can be competitive while the "older players" are still around,
-the think the younger version isn't really as good as the older version,
-they find the return higher for the younger version, and thus are better able to fill other holes
-payroll space isn't a critical factor

It's not in any way a given that trading Span is smarter than trading Revere. It might be, then again, it might not be. What's pretty clear, however, is that they have 2 people--maybe more, given their coming crop of minor league OFers--capable of playing CF in 2013, have needs in other areas, and one of them should be used in an attempt to fill those needs. "Which one" isn't as clear. Span is signed to a pretty decent contract, and IMO is probably the better player for at least 2013-4. Revere is cost controlled, and if he continues to hit .300, might end up the better player sooner than later.


I'd say the same situation applies with Morneau/Parmalee. One should probably go. Which one is less clear, or at the least, more a matter of opinion than fact.

You can argue money is a factor, and it is, but IMO money shouldn't really have a great deal of influence this winter, nor should money hamper the Twins a great deal over the next few years. There is really no reason they can't support a larger payroll ($120m for sure) then the present one, and there is payroll coming off the books and hopefully, young position player talent either here or available soon (Plouffe, Dozier, minor league OFers, Gibson, Hendriks, etc).

I'd prefer to see the Twins keep Morneau for next year and see if we can contend with him. If we're out of it, hopefully he's having a vintage-Morneau year, and can be flipped at the deadline. Meanwhile, tell Parmelee that he will be the everyday 1B in Rochester, hitting clean-up, and to be ready to play 1B for the Big Club as soon as mid-July 2013. This will give us a nice little nucleus of prospects coming up at the same time (Revere, Dozier, Parmelee, Hicks, Arcia, and Gibson all becoming big league regulars within the space of two years), and helps shorten the gap to our next wave of talent (Sano, Rosario, Kepler, Buxton, Berrios, Santana, Goodrum, Boyd, and Vargas, all of whom should arrive in 2014-2016).

Originally Posted by jctwins

You mean besides provide depth behind an older player with an injury history? You're right. Trade Parmalee and extend Morneau.

The Ramos trade was pretty bad, but I don't think it really matters at this point. I know when we called him up, he really showed that he could hit... but much of that has caught up to him since. Mauer clearly isn't going to be an everyday catcher anymore, and I think between Doumit and Drew, we have very good depth at the catcher position right now. Sure Drew's bat isn't all that great, but he is a + defensive catcher with outstanding ability to handle a pitching staff.

Originally Posted by cr9617

In more than 2,446 minor league at bats, his his hitting line is .271/.362/.812. That's why he has little trade value.

September callup means pretty much nothing. But if you are going to point it out as a positive, It's only fair to also mention how badly he struggled with the Twins early this season.

I never said he was a sure thing. He also spent a large part of this season on the big league club not playing every day. That's a lousy way to develop talent.

My issue with statements like what you have posted here is that they lack any sort of context. It's well known that the Twins had to tweak Parmelee's swing because of contact issues. Otherwise he would have been Rob Deer... That took away quite a bit of his power, and it took a bit to come back. Over the last season and half though, the guy has been putting up video game stats in the minors. He does have pedigree, as he was a first rounder who was a potential middle of the order bat. The problem is that it took a bit longer for him to develop. Even in spite of this, he's 24 and has shown that he has nothing left to prove in AAA.

Yes he struggled. But that's true of most rookies. Not every rookie is Mike Trout or Steven Strasburg, and I don't get the mentality that says "if you don't produce in your first month of action, you must be worthless"

So would I trade him? Most likely no. I don't think he has "little value" as some of you have suggested, but if he does, you definitely don't move him. The problem the Twins have right now is that there is no place for him. That could have been alleviated by trading Span or Morneau, but both remain on the team.

Originally Posted by Mauerzy4Prez

The Ramos trade was pretty bad, but I don't think it really matters at this point. I know when we called him up, he really showed that he could hit... but much of that has caught up to him since. Mauer clearly isn't going to be an everyday catcher anymore, and I think between Doumit and Drew, we have very good depth at the catcher position right now. Sure Drew's bat isn't all that great, but he is a + defensive catcher with outstanding ability to handle a pitching staff.

You're missing the point. My post isn't about the validity of that trade on its own, but it's an example of trading depth, which is stupid on a team with so little.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Rebuilding teams don't trade the cheap, young versions of their older players. Threads like this and the "Trade Revere" one are incredibly pointless.

True. Successful teams, like say, the Yankees, do that.

I suspect all the players mentioned above will be dangled, and see what kind of offers are available. How are you going to know what someone may bring in a trade without trying?

Originally Posted by crarko

True. Successful teams, like say, the Yankees, do that.

Ugh.....The Yankees are a terrible example to compare the Twins to. The Yankees build their teams through spending $200+ million a year to top free agents etc.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

Not every rookie is Mike Trout or Steven Strasburg, and I don't get the mentality that says "if you don't produce in your first month of action, you must be worthless"

Trout was actually pretty crappy last year.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

I never said he was a sure thing. He also spent a large part of this season on the big league club not playing every day. That's a lousy way to develop talent.

My issue with statements like what you have posted here is that they lack any sort of context. It's well known that the Twins had to tweak Parmelee's swing because of contact issues. Otherwise he would have been Rob Deer... That took away quite a bit of his power, and it took a bit to come back. Over the last season and half though, the guy has been putting up video game stats in the minors. He does have pedigree, as he was a first rounder who was a potential middle of the order bat. The problem is that it took a bit longer for him to develop. Even in spite of this, he's 24 and has shown that he has nothing left to prove in AAA.

Yes he struggled. But that's true of most rookies. Not every rookie is Mike Trout or Steven Strasburg, and I don't get the mentality that says "if you don't produce in your first month of action, you must be worthless"

So would I trade him? Most likely no. I don't think he has "little value" as some of you have suggested, but if he does, you definitely don't move him. The problem the Twins have right now is that there is no place for him. That could have been alleviated by trading Span or Morneau, but both remain on the team.

Context? He's had 7 years of below average production for his position in the minors. He's get hot for 40 some games and now he's a star? He's closer to Stahoviak than he is to Morneau.
He's put up video game stats the last month and a half @ AAA, not the last year and a half.

He's worth more to the Twins than other teams would be willing to pay for him.

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

Ugh.....The Yankees are a terrible example to compare the Twins to. The Yankees build their teams through spending $200+ million a year to top free agents etc.

I know it's unfair, but they got compared to them in the playoffs a few times, and found wanting. If we're going to ever challenge them, it's probably going to take a veteran core who's played together for a while. Or is the idea to make a run in 2018 or so?

Originally Posted by cr9617

Context? He's had 7 years of below average production for his position in the minors. He's get hot for 40 some games and now he's a star? He's closer to Stahoviak than he is to Morneau.
He's put up video game stats the last month and a half @ AAA, not the last year and a half.

He's worth more to the Twins than other teams would be willing to pay for him.

What in the world is your definition of below average production?

In his 7 year career, he OPSed below .800 for an entire season only once... in 2007. He had two mid season promotions in 2006 and more recently in 2010 where he struggled out of the gate, but that was after extreme success in his former league. How in the world is that below average?

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

What in the world is your definition of below average production?

In his 7 year career, he OPSed below .800 for an entire season only once... in 2007. He had two mid season promotions in 2006 and more recently in 2010 where he struggled out of the gate, but that was after extreme success in his former league. How in the world is that below average?

Are you kidding? He plays first base. He's a middling prospect that has hardly made a mark.

This is a silly argument. There's a reason why he doesn't have much value trade wise. He's not on anybody's radar.

Originally Posted by Badsmerf

GM's wouldn't trade Kris Benson and his wife for that, maybe just Kris Benson, but certainly not his wife with him.

ex-wife!!!

The Twins may have to move Parmelee just because he's out of options, and they could extend Morneau and have Mauer. Carbo is an aging temp replacement only problem. Mauer playing first means more games for Doumit behind the plate. Then Willingham DHs more. Yet we can all fear when Hrbek went down after we let Sorrento go (because he was out of options, the 26th man) and Paul tore up baseball for a couple of seasons...

Originally Posted by Rosterman

The Twins may have to move Parmelee just because he's out of options, and they could extend Morneau and have Mauer. Carbo is an aging temp replacement only problem. Mauer playing first means more games for Doumit behind the plate. Then Willingham DHs more. Yet we can all fear when Hrbek went down after we let Sorrento go (because he was out of options, the 26th man) and Paul tore up baseball for a couple of seasons...

Doesn't parm have one option left?

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

Doesn't parm have one option left?

This is Parmelee's first option year.

Originally Posted by Ultima Ratio

This is Parmelee's first option year.

then he has two years left... thanks.