08-01-2012, 09:19 AM #21
This season was different. There was Liriano and that's it. The rest of the team (non-DL edition) is signed through multiple seasons. There wasn't a good reason to make trades if teams weren't willing to part with equitable value. Those players will still be available to trade this offseason or next July.
Fans need to take a deep breath and realize that baseball franchises are not fixed overnight. The Twins are not the Cubs, loaded with bad contracts and departing players. Their tradable assets are valuable and signed long-term. The front office needs to get value from them and if other teams aren't willing to give back good players in return, you hold onto those assets until the market is in your favor.
08-01-2012, 09:19 AM #22
I volunteer to eat crow
08-01-2012, 09:32 AM #23
I would say at least with some of these guys "trading just to trade" isn't quite accurate. There are very valid reasons why dealing Span, Willingham, and Burton now would have been prudent. We probably won't know until the word gets out about what was offered, but those three have significant red flags about sustaining their current pace. If we got offers anywhere near a "sell high" value we may have made a serious mistake holding on to them.
08-01-2012, 10:33 AM #24
Of all the non-moves yesterday, I'm most disappointed that we didn't move Burton. Span has been pretty consistent when healthy and Willingham's contract is so good that it didn't make sense trading him unless someone overpaid.
But Burton is a bit of journeyman having a career year and the Twins have a bunch of potential bullpen arms (heck, it might help Hendriks to pitch out of the pen for a month before starting again, ala Santana or Liriano). I know he's cheap but it would have been nice if he could have brought back something. Oh well, I expect Ryan will make some offseason moves.
08-01-2012, 10:43 AM #25
08-01-2012, 10:54 AM #26
08-01-2012, 10:59 AM #27
I understand not making a trade yesterday if the offers weren't there but I don't want to hear the same thing after this offseason. At the end of the day it's not about how much you tried to get something done. Terry Ryan has shown this year that he can still find a bargain, what he has to prove next is that he can still make a deal. I don't want to see a trade just for the sake of a trade but I would like to know that I have a GM/front office of a bad team that can take advantage of guys like Span,Perkins, and Willingham being at their peak value.
08-01-2012, 11:18 AM #28
08-01-2012, 11:24 AM #29
08-01-2012, 11:29 AM #30
Would anyone here have been happy with what the Giants gave up for Pence? I sure wouldn't. What they gave up wasn't much more than what the Twins got for Liriano.
08-01-2012, 11:30 AM #31
I really don't think the Twins are alone in this delusion - the media and even well-informed bloggers (and blog posters) buy into it also. The "delusion" I'm talking about is that players on a last-place team with pedestrian (or worse) numbers garner significant trade interest around the league. I realized this the past few days in two examples. First, I was listening to Mad Dog Radio on Sirius, and he basically ran through all of the MLB teams for possible trade activity. Yeah, it's Mad Dog shooting from the hip, and it wasn't particularly researched or pre-prepared. But he got through about four or five other outfielders on the market (including Pence and Victorino), and when he got to the Twins he said "they don't have anyone you'd really WANT". That may be an overly simplistic view, but I think that was the prevailing wisdom. Span could help a lot of clubs, but he was never as desirable as some of the other names being openly shopped. Plus, Terry Ryan didn't really want to move him (and I do like him as a Twin, this was never about him personally).
The second moment was when I turned on the Liriano game last night and FSN North put his stats up. His record was something like 3-10 with an ERA in the mid 5.00's. Now, we as Twins fans remember what he was in '06, how he came back in 2010, and how he's been one of the best pitchers in the AL for short stretches this year. But when you put that all together and put up numbers like THAT, and then remember that you're trading a rental, not even the full player, should we really be surprised he didn't draw even a "B" level prospect? Probably not.
Now, I do think that guys like Willingham and, to a lesser degree, Morneau, Burton, and Perkins might have had some degree of value to other teams (and were not rentals). But I'm not at all surprised that TR didn't see enough value to move any of those guys, even though I'm sure there were offers. I can't "fault" him for making that decision, but it's frustrating when you hear TR reiterate over and over that he doesn't really believe in free agency, and doesn't seem to believe in the trade deadline either...yet the team continues to slide.
Last edited by StormJH1; 08-01-2012 at 11:32 AM.
08-01-2012, 11:31 AM #32
6) Thome (Twins got $20,000, Phillies got 2 prospects)
9) Dickey (has been a mainstay SP for the Mets since Twins tendered him in 09)
13) Thinking that the opening day 2012 SP core staff was, at best, anything close to MLB-average-level.
08-01-2012, 11:47 AM #33
isnt this the same guy who traded jim thome for 20,000 dollars then 1 year later the phillys got baltimores #3and #8 prospect ?
isnt this the guy that got go-go for 2 time cy young winner johan santana?
terry ryan has not made 1 good trade ever , he did make 1 lucky trade in aj ....terry ryan felt and stated boof bonser was the key player in that trade...and he has lived on that 1 trade since..
terry ryans drafts always comes down to this "who can we draft that will take less money? who is hurt? who has slipped in the rankings?
terry ryan and radke need to go along with the rest of the 3 stooges and the @ss clown posse....they draft soft tossing controll pitchers ...why? they are cheaper to sign ....
they draft toolsly outfielders why cheaper to sign .....they draft hurt players,why they are cheaper to sign....
time for new blood new leadership and maybe a new owner....
08-01-2012, 11:59 AM #34
[QUOTE=old nurse;41116]Print a copy of Nygard's top 50 prospects. In a few years see where the players are at. You can trade players for prospects, but will they develop into better players than what you had? In the meantime you have to field a team. A competitive team is preferable to an outfield with Hosken Powell and Willie Norwood. If they had traded outfielders, there would not be adequate replacements. Two years from now maybe. Perkins might be replaceable but I don't think there was even a b type player offered. The current minor leagues have plenty of c players in the lower levels.
I'm not saying that they need to move every tradeable player, and of course prospects (like every other sport) are just prospects until proven otherwise, and I understand the whole field a competitive team idea but this team has to figure out who they are and that is one of the 3 worst teams in the league for the last year and a half. IMO, it's going to be very easy for this org to fall into the trap of wanting to find bargain type players to stay competitive but they still won't have the pitching. As much as I appreciate TR I also remember the 90s
08-01-2012, 12:30 PM #35
If Hammer stays healthy he might still have this value in the offseason but I can't believe Burton will ever have been this valuable again. We will probably be able to look back in a year and know for sure, but it sure feels like we just whiffed on selling high again.
08-01-2012, 12:37 PM #36
Last edited by Loosey; 08-01-2012 at 12:39 PM.
08-01-2012, 12:44 PM #37
Burton, as a "non-closer" with limited back-to-back days usage, likely wouldn't have significant value. I'd rather keep him around on the cheap for next year than deal him away for a pittance."Maybe you could go grab a bat and ball… and learn something. Maybe you will get it."
- Strib commenter educating the elitists on the value of RBI's
08-01-2012, 12:49 PM #38
08-01-2012, 01:27 PM #39
08-01-2012, 02:31 PM #40