Thread: Mackey: Good Chance Twins Are Punting 2013

Originally Posted by John Bonnes

I just hope it doesn't mean they will be further slashing payroll, or not take advantage of what is going to be a crazy deep pitching free agent class.

I will be happy if they leave the offseason with one Sanchez/Jackson-type pitcher. Anything less than that is a failure, in my opinion.*

*barring every decent pitcher in this FA class getting crazy-stupid money like $15m+ a year. In that case, pass.

Or they may pursue free agent pitchers Scott Baker, Carl Pavano, and Francisco Liriano.

Originally Posted by crarko

Or they may pursue free agent pitchers Scott Baker, Carl Pavano, and Francisco Liriano.

My opinion is that Baker is back on an incentive type deal with a club option. Makes too much sense for both parties.

Originally Posted by Badsmerf

To get elite starting pitching, eventually you'll have to pay for it. This team isn't on a ****ing 60 million dollar budget like you guys think. They have 100 million to spend. If they EVER want to compete, they have to get good starting pitchers that aren't just rookies coming up through the system. The thought that they shouldn't put up money for it is like chasing your tail. Put your money into a guy you're confident that can stay healthy and pitch at a high level (like Hamels). I wont have any expectations for this team until they get an elite pitcher. They might be able to compete in the central, but nothing past that. Get over the little guy syndrome already.

So you think the best time to eventually pay for it is when you are coming off of consecutive 90 loss seasons?

You won't get any of the 3 for less than 15m and will probably take a 4 year deal to do that, Price of pitching is going up!

Get your 2013 twins season tickets now!!!

I think people forget you can acquire a top-end starting pitcher without going the FA route (i.e. via trade like Cincy dealing for Mat Latos last year). In addition, the 'future aces' in their 4th or 5th year are usually cheaper with less wear on their arms. I would imagine most clubs would at least listen if the offer started with Miguel Sano, so if we could identify a similar future ace with at least 2 years of team control, would you be willing to deal 3 top-15 prospects, including Sano, for him?

Originally Posted by TRex

I think people forget you can acquire a top-end starting pitcher without going the FA route (i.e. via trade like Cincy dealing for Mat Latos last year). In addition, the 'future aces' in their 4th or 5th year are usually cheaper with less wear on their arms. I would imagine most clubs would at least listen if the offer started with Miguel Sano, so if we could identify a similar future ace with at least 2 years of team control, would you be willing to deal 3 top-15 prospects, including Sano, for him?

For next season: no chance. 2 years ago: yes and I suggested it on BYTO. This team is not a Mat Latos away despite what some think.

I would give up at lest a couple top prospects for someone in his 1st or 2nd year if I thaught he was good.

Originally Posted by kab21

So you think the best time to eventually pay for it is when you are coming off of consecutive 90 loss seasons?

Maybe. Depends on how the rest of the year plays out. In order for me to say yes these things have to happen: Plouffe's break-out is legit (follows up with a strong ending to the year), Gibson looks like he could be ready to start the year in MN (being ready and actually starting are different), Blackburn turns his season around, Baker doesn't have set-backs, Hendriks figures it out (biggest question mark), Morneau being healthy, and one of the young OF is ready for a full time role. If all these things happen, which isn't that crazy, I say yes. With Hendriks and Gibson you will add 2 guys instantly that can be at least league average, maybe better. Not much should be expected of Baker, but league average isn't crazy. I know it wont happen, but add Grienke and this team would be pretty good. Playoff team with pieces to trade to get another elite pitcher if wanted. I just don't like the notion of thinking it is impossible for this team to put up big money for a pitcher, when pitching wins games.

Originally Posted by Badsmerf

My opinion is that Baker is back on an incentive type deal with a club option. Makes too much sense for both parties.

Might make sense for the Twins but might not make sense for Baker.

Baker has enough success that I wouldn't be surprised if a team threw a 3 year deal at him with a lower first season and a nice payout years 2 and 3... I wouldn't be surprised if that team was Minnesota, but I do hope that resigning Baker is not the only option the Twins plan to explore this year.

No one's giving a three-year deal to a guy coming off TJ surgery. That simply doesn't happen. Especially considering that Baker was never that durable to begin with.

Baker will get a one year, incentive laden deal just like almost every other pitcher who loses a season to injury.

I would pretty much stop caring if they punt. I would also stop coming here as much, as the koolaid camp vs the negative camp would just get too ugly to enjoy, as people will move to the extremes.....

I would doubt Baker even gets an offer until next spring/early summer when he can prove he can pitch again. He likely won't be ready to pitch until June.

There isn't the extra draft picks a team could get in the past. Not having all those extra picks like we had this year means that they better be good because you have less chances. That comes back to the scouts and player evaluation guys, they are the same guys that said Nishi was the real deal, they said Ramos wasn't considered a top prospect anymore (a direct quote from Ryan after that trade). So yes Smith did a poor job but the guys providing the info are the same with the same guy in charge of drafting. Ryan has a scout background so he may do his own work unlike Smith but the real change is the talking head is now Ryan and not Smith. Not exactly a purge of the org.

The Twins aren't going to splash in free agency this year, but that doesn't mean they aren't going to sign people to the rotation, but if all of the Jackson, Marcum, Sanchez, McCarthy types demand too much money than I imagine the Twins will settle for Scott Baker, Joe Blanton, Jeremy Guthrie and god knows who to try and put something together.

In this division, and with this core, I think outright "punting" the 2013 season would be a big mistake and I doubt that is truly Ryan's intention. The last time the Twins "punted" a season was 2008, when they gave up Santana, Garza and Hunter, then came within a game of making the playoffs.

Every move should be made with the organization's long-term health in mind, but that's not mutually exclusive from putting a competitive product on the field next year.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

In this division, and with this core, I think outright "punting" the 2013 season would be a big mistake and I doubt that is truly Ryan's intention. The last time the Twins "punted" a season was 2008, when they gave up Santana, Garza and Hunter, then came within a game of making the playoffs.

Every move should be made with the organization's long-term health in mind, but that's not mutually exclusive from putting a competitive product on the field next year.

"Mutually exclusive"?....sounds more like "caught in the middle of a Catch-22" situation.

When you need pitching free agency is not much of an option, if somehow Diamond keeps his success up next year and we develop 1 more we might be alright.