Thread: Would you trade Liriano for what the Pirates gave the Astros for Wandy?

I think you'd have to take that for Liriano, but a better question is, would any GM out there offer that much? Wandy doesn't have the "stuff" that Liriano does, is also older and has a higher salary, but he is so much more consistent that I'm not sure you can compare the two. Liriano's value is almost more difficult to predict than the results of his next start.

So does this mean that everyone is back off the resign Liriano bandwagon? And I would take that deal as well. It certainly isn't optimal with the center piece being a "toolsy" outfielder at AA but if you don't trade Liriano you are basically committing to the $12M QO.

I hope that the Twins hold out for a very high quality pitching prospect.

Grossman is past the point of just being "toolsy", he's gets on base and good defender..Twins would be fortunate to get a player like him in any deal. Only prob though Grossman doesn't hit for much power.

Sub out the toolsy OF for some other similar position player, and yes, absolutely I would take that.

The biggest problem I guess I have is the best prospect is a OF, which the Twins do not need. The next best is a back of the rotation starter, which the Twins also don't need. If the prospects were a 2b and a high upside pitcher I'd be all for it.

Originally Posted by kab21

What if this means you get nothing?

then you offer Liriano arb.

Count me in the "not taking the deal" camp. Grossman is the only decent prospect of that bunch, and he's kind of redundant in this system, so there's no way I'd even be talking a trade around a propsect like him. Neither of those pitchers can strike out guys in low A, so unless there's some sort of obvious toolsy unrealized talent with those guys, they are filler at best. I'd much rather they take one quality propsect and a low A filler/higher ceiling guy than to go for a couple of #5 starters and a toolsy OF.

I'd take that if you swap out an OF for a MIF. If that was my best offer, yes, I'd take that. They need to go get more minor league quality and quantity. This team is awful for the 2nd year in a row, and it looks like nothing is on the horizon to change that next year. You have to go get some players, even if they are "throw them against the wall and see what sticks", average prospects, you have to go get some players.

minor league free agents will give you the minor league quantity you need. But you dont' trade guys you can offer arb to and get a pick for quantity... Otherwise, just take the pick.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

then you offer Liriano arb.

that was so 2011

I'd tell them to keep the outfielder and give me at least one better pitcher.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

The Astros get Rudy Owens, a 24 year old LHP who is repeating AAA this season and is 8-5 with 3.14 ERA and 1.168 WHIP, 6.5 K/9 and 3.4 K/BB), Robbie Grossman a 22 year old toolsy CF who is hitting .262/.374/.403 with 7 HRs in AA and Colton Cain a 21 year old LHP who is pitching in high A with 4.20 ERA, 1.240 WHIP, 6.1 K/9 and 2.04 K/BB. Not top 100 MLB prospects and only Grossman was on BA's list of the Pirates' top 10 prospects at number 8. The Pirates also got some $.

If you were the Twins, would you trade Liriano for that?

Probably not, but mostly because Grossman is the headline prospect and he's essentially Aaron Hicks without the defensive range and arm. The other two prospects sat #13 and #16 on BA's Pirate Prospect List and profile as potential #4 starters or LOOGies.

But at the same time, in theory this is the trade you're going to get if you trade Liriano. Since you're not going to get the best and brightest from another team's system, the question becomes how do a Dave Hollins for David Ortiz trade and lift a valuable prospect out of the system without your trade partner realizing it? This used to be Terry Ryan's forte (Liriano himself being an example of it), but it hasn't for some time.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

that was so 2011

um.. no. You can make a qualifying 12.5M offer to Francisco, which I'd guess he will reject. If not, you get him back (and he's not a terrible option at that price) and if he does, you get the pick.

Liriano won't take the one year qualifying offer, he's likely going to be the best and youngest lefty on the market next year. Even if he stumbles down the stretch, some team is going to offer multiple years and his agent knows it. If that holds true, I'd take the draft pick over the grab bag the Astros got, but we really don't know if the Astros could have improved the quality of their return if they would have lessened the quantity of their return.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

um.. no. You can make a qualifying 12.5M offer to Francisco, which I'd guess he will reject. If not, you get him back (and he's not a terrible option at that price) and if he does, you get the pick.

It's a quibble between the "qualifying offer" and you having said "arbitration." Which seems like it was just a mis-use of the wording.

The Pirates and Astros are both cheap. Pirates gave up cheap prospects to get Wandy Rodriguez. The Astros saw this as an opportunity to salary dump and get a little something in return. This is more of the type of deal I would expect for Morneau. If the Twins move him it is a salary dump. Liriano and Rodriguez may be similar, Rodriguez has a price tag that Liriano doesn't.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

that was so 2011

Thrylos lays down some first class snark, yo.

Hey guys, first post here, but i've got more than i care to admit on another twins forum.

I probably have an unconventional view on Liriano in that I don't view him as somebody that we need to worry about what we get for him. I think if any team offers a top 25 prospect for the guy you have to take it before they can change their mind. I believe, even in our bad state, that our rotation is better served without him in it. The guy is a head case. If one or two bad things go wrong he melts down. I know he's had a better month or so (last night aside) but really he's not a guy you want on your team if you wish to be a playoff contender. This is why i'm actually flabbergasted that teams like the jays were interested in him. You want someone consistent and steady in the playoffs, not a guy like liriano. Heck no 2 pitches are even the same with him, he can't offer the exact same delivery twice (not that his delivery is worth repeating or anything)..

anywho, in conclusion, im' not in the slightest bit concerned if the twins get nothing for liriano. I mean definitely get the best you can but don't hold out too much.. We're better off just without him on the team.

Well that's silly, of course you want to get something for him. Regardless of how you feel about him, if another team values him (they do) you squeeze every last drop out of him. And if we can get a top 25 prospect for him I'll probably kiss JR on the mouth.