Thread: Trade Deadline Heartache.

Originally Posted by Fanatic Jack

Twins need to clean house and soon. Texas did it a few years ago when Nolan Ryan took over. St. Peter, Ryan, Rantz, Johnson, Scouts, Gardenhire, and trainers all need to go. However, working for the Pohlad family is great job security because nobody ever gets fired. Heck they even re-hired Bill Smith after his dismal job. This is a MLB team not a charity.

They repositioned Smith in the organization. I will be the first to say that Smith was a pretty awful GM, that doesn't mean he can't be an asset in other areas of the organization though, if anything I applaud the Twins and Smith for not just kicking him to the curb but finding him a role where he can continue to benefit the team like he did prior to his GM stint.

Originally Posted by kab21

Is the OP crying about losing Delmon Young? The same Delmon that is currently hitting with a .689 OPS?

When did Liriano ever have much trade value? His ERA's by month this year are 11, 4.5, 3 and 5 after he was horrible last year. his latest clunker didn't help but teams regarded him as a pretty questionable trade target regardless.

I think Smith said that more money would fix last year's problems and management questioned the team's ability to compete. Ryan (imo) said that the team would need to rebuild and so far we are seeing that. I also see a lot of complaining about payroll but then they ignore the almost 15M (tops in the majors) that the Twins have plowed into the draft and int'l FA. Payroll will go down again this year but that is so the Twins aren't stuck with a bunch of aging FA's when the farm system starts coming thru. I do hate the Capps decision though.

the twins drafted a pair of 18 year olds... which decade will they help in?

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

They repositioned Smith in the organization. I will be the first to say that Smith was a pretty awful GM, that doesn't mean he can't be an asset in other areas of the organization though, if anything I applaud the Twins and Smith for not just kicking him to the curb but finding him a role where he can continue to benefit the team like he did prior to his GM stint.

bathroom attendent maybe? after all didnt he have input into the gay stadium called target field?

Originally Posted by johnnydakota

bathroom attendent maybe? after all didnt he have input into the gay stadium called target field?

"Gay stadium"? Tone it down. I don't have many hot buttons but that's one of them.

So if I start a thread praising the "closer mentality" of Matt Capps, the "veteran presence" of Jamey Carroll, and Ben Revere's "Smiley Factor"....will we officially have jumped the shark here already?

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Trust us, we're less pleased about us being here than you are.

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I mean that figuratively, not literally by the way.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I mean that figuratively, not literally by the way.

Hey North... Good to have you back. Haven't seen you posting in awhile. The Board isn't the same unless you are here.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Don't let the door hit you on the way out. I mean that figuratively, not literally by the way.

If Rodney King were still around I have a feeling he'd have some sage-like advice for everyone.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

Hey North... Good to have you back. Haven't seen you posting in awhile. The Board isn't the same unless you are here.

Cheers RB, too much negativity for awhile, I love when guys try to prove you're wrong about liking something. I'm a baseball fan and especially a Twins fan, in the big picture there is lots of good discussion here, you just have to filter out the crap.

Originally Posted by FrodaddyG

Trust us, we're less pleased about us being here than you are.

I'm sorry, is someone forcing you to post here?

Originally Posted by thrylos98

If he thought that, why did he sign a bunch of 30-some year olds last off-season (Marquis, Carroll, Doumit, Willingham) ? I suspect that Ryan said that this team will be ok with just pennies being pinched.

A bunch of 30+ yr olds on short and relatively small contracts. One of those old men might land the Twins a really nice prospect or two at the trade deadline or next season. I think that is a pretty effective way to rebuild when you aren't outrageously poor (and the Twins aren't).

I really don't understand why the only possible rebuild scenario that you understand is the burn it to the ground and completely start over type of rebuild. signing a couple of veterans on short contracts is fine as long as they don't block legitimate prospects.

Originally Posted by johnnydakota

the twins drafted a pair of 18 year olds... which decade will they help in?

Ugh... Really? You're upset that the Twins drafted HS players as part of a rebuild? You don't fix 100 loss teams in an offseason and in the draft you trade upside (HS) for shorter time to the majors (college) picks. There is no correct way to draft but buxton was considered by many to be the best prospect in the draft. I think you are a little to impatient if you think the Twins should have drafted differently.

Originally Posted by johnnydakota

bathroom attendent maybe? after all didnt he have input into the gay stadium called target field?

Are you 13 years old?

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Cheers RB, too much negativity for awhile, I love when guys try to prove you're wrong about liking something. I'm a baseball fan and especially a Twins fan, in the big picture there is lots of good discussion here, you just have to filter out the crap.

I agree. I am cynical as hell, but it has been too much for me lately.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

Cheers RB, too much negativity for awhile, I love when guys try to prove you're wrong about liking something. I'm a baseball fan and especially a Twins fan, in the big picture there is lots of good discussion here, you just have to filter out the crap.

I hear ya and Shane... It drove me out for a little while myself. The combination of that and seemingly less posts from guys like you did seem to tip the balance in the wrong direction.

There are guys on this board worth reading... You are one of them. There are some new guys worth reading as well.

There are some on this board that I disagree with but are still worth reading but yeah... we gotta get the balance back.

Get a room.

I feel that the past offseason was a step in the right direction. Would I liked to see Cuddyer and or Kubel resigned, of course I would have. Having them sign elsewhere hurt in both production and in team leadership. Cuddyer's leadship and willingness to play anywhere was huge for us in the past and Kubel just recently was leading the NL in RBI. At the time Willingham signed, Cuddyer and Kubel were still unsigned and the writing on the wall was that one of them if not both weren't coming back. The Zumaya and Marquis deals both didn't pan out but at the time they were low risk, high reward deals. Those aren't any different than other posters on here wanting to go after Jonathan Sanchez after he was DFA. Jamey Carroll hasn't been great by any means but it was a signing to help with the infield defense. He has done that and he has had a few clutch ABs. Jarod Burton was a very nice under the radar signing that was a low risk high reward signing. Unlike Zumaya and Marquis, Burton has given us the high reward. Doumit was another good signing. He isn't Jason Kubel but he is a realiable bat and is a decent option behind the plate or at DH. Looking at FA catchers for this coming offseason, other than the guys we wouldn't sign like McCann or Martin, he is the best option for a backup catcher.

If the Twins are inclided to make a trade at the deadline, I really hope they get value. Willingham doesn't hurt them if he isn't traded. His value is high right now and with Carlos Quentin resigning with San Diego, his stock wont get any higher than it is right now. But to trade him, you better be blown away with an offer. Same goes for Span. As for Liriano, I think the Twins need to work hard on an extension. If he doesn't sign an extension, pursue a trade. The market should be good considering what Detroit gave up for Sanchez and what is rumored in the Dempster deal. I admit I think Liriano is shaky and you don't know what you are going to get. I admit April was terrible for him. But since the return to the rotation, that Liriano is just as good as any sencond tier FA that is likely to sign with the Twins in the offseason. For all the dreamers, give me two reasons why a top tier FA pitcher would want to sign here? I know there are other second tier guys out there (see my comments below). Would you take Liriano over say an Anibel Sanchez or Edwin Jackson? Both guys I mentioned are just like Liriano. Both have shown flashes and both have had bad stretches.

Going into this next offseason, starting pitching is obviously going to be the focus. The twins are set in the OF, corner inf, and catcher. I don't know what is available for FA middle inf, but signing a starting 2B and allowing Carroll to come off the bench should be a priority behind signing 2-3 free agent pitchers. I can see the Twins targeting SPs like Brandon McCarthy and Shaun Marcum. I would love them to go after Greinke or Hamels but honestly, I don't think that is feasible. Hamels is going to end up in a big market and Greinke is generating a lot of attention now at the deadline and teams like Atlanta and Washington are being rumored as possible fits for him. I don't see them coming to Minnesota. These are just my opinions...agree or not, they are just opinions.

Originally Posted by shanewahl

I agree. I am cynical as hell, but it has been too much for me lately.

Bad teams tend to bring out the worst in people. It's hard for an entire board not to turn on itself when a team has a feeling of hopelessness around it.

It will pass. And if it doesn't, I'm sure we'll start cleaning it up by force if necessary.

I don't think that it was expected that neither Gibson or Wimmers would not be in the rotation by 2013. At the current time Gibson may be by the end of next year, but do not expect Wimmers to be there until 2014 at the earliest. That means we still need a pitching upgrade as the starters the Twins currently have will not do well against the good hitting clubs.
Liriano when on is the Twins best pitcher, off he is what he is last night. Need a fair return for him, but that will play out after Dempster is traded and possibly Garza. Expect Ryan will have to take a low A or B+ prospect at best and those would be in A ball.
Willingham or Span will probably be traded if the offer is good. Pitching is still the primary need, but clubs are more reluctant than ever to give up veru good pitching prospects. Twins do not need a group of #3 starters in return.

I wasn't a big fan of hiring Terry Ryan back as GM -- primarily because I think this whole organization is way too much of an "old boys club". I realize that atmosphere isn't unique to Minnesota but I do think that the Twins take it to a new level -- if you examine people in front office and management positions, there is very little change. And, regardless of what Ryan thinks, I don't think that changing titles or a bit of a shift in responsibilities really invokes many new ideas or much energy.

And I do agree with the original poster that the primary motivating factor in the firing/rehiring of Bill Smith was that the Pohlads wanted to reduce payroll. But then, I thought that was pretty evident already last fall.

It's hard for me to criticize the failure to resign Cuddyer and Kubel. Willingham appears to be a more than adequate outfield replacement for Cuddyer (albeit LF not RF) for less money. And while I was more interested in resigning Kubel than Cuddyer, I think he wanted a change from TF. Now he's got a new stadium that is closer to his home in California. I doubt that he'd be producing at the same level in Minnesota. And frankly, I couldn't see spending the money for Nathan when I didn't expect this team to be very good. (Although given a fairly healthy Mauer and Morneau, I did hope that this team would be better than they are now).

The Capps and Carroll signings left me pretty much at "meh". Doumit has been a pleasant surprise and is becoming one of my favorites. As for what has or hasn't happened with trades, its pretty hard to make a judgment when you don't know what discussions have occurred.

While I don't think Ryan has done a fantastic job, I don't think it has been horrible either. And that, is perhaps my biggest gripe -- the Twins just seem mired in mediocrity and nobody seems willing to do anything to change it. Something has to give -- either a massive change of players, a change in the on-field staff, a shake-up in the front office -- or some meaningful combination of all 3. If nothing much changes, I'm afraid we'll still be having these mediocrity discussions in 2014 and 2015. I'm prepared for a mediocre 2013 but I'd like some glimmer of hope that things will improve significantly thereafter.