Thread: Added Pressure.

Rocketpig,

What happened to the Brewers this season. The Tigers will dominate the second half of the season and go to the World Series. Miguel Carera worked out pretty good.

Rocketpig,

What happend to the Brewers without Fielder so far this year? The Tigers will still win the divison and beat the Yankees in the playoffs just like in 2007. The Miguel Cabrera contract is working out just fine for the Tigers. Illich is a genius and not afraid to spend.

Originally Posted by Fanatic Jack

Rocketpig,

What happened to the Brewers this season. The Tigers will dominate the second half of the season and go to the World Series. Miguel Carera worked out pretty good.

What about the Brewers? They took their shot at it last season and failed. I saw it coming a mile away and thought it was sad that the franchise is now basically a wasteland for the next few years.

As for the Tigers, they have two shots at this thing. This season (which is going rather badly) and maaaaaybe next year. After that, Miggy and Fielder start to get old. Both are already DH types in their late 20s. What are their early 30s going to look like? And given those contracts, Detroit can't go pick up the infield help they'll need going forward. They won't be able to go pick up another front-end starter. They're completely hamstrung by those contracts. Take a look at the Tigers #5-9 hitters. Try not to laugh too hard at their ridiculously bad production levels.

I'm all for spending smart money. I'm not for spending dumb money. Willingham was smart money. Fielder was dumb money.

Originally Posted by Fanatic Jack

Rocketpig,

What happend to the Brewers without Fielder so far this year? The Tigers will still win the divison and beat the Yankees in the playoffs just like in 2007. The Miguel Cabrera contract is working out just fine for the Tigers. Illich is a genius and not afraid to spend.

Yes, he's an absolute genius who, despite having a payroll much larger than the Twins, has the same number of championships in the past 20 years as the Twins.

Of course, the Twins have gone to the playoffs far more often in those 20 years.

Fanatic Jack,

Thanks for introducing an exceptional forum topic. Oh, and thanks for exonerating me... You too, MWW. The most obvious point of contention we have is this: some observe the Twin's history and conclude that they will never, ever spend satisfactorily to produce a winner. That's a very understandable outlook. I just disagree, for two primary reasons.

First, Carl Pohlad is gone, God rest his soul. He was hurt my the way he and his family were treated LEADING UP to his decision to give it up. He saw that his kids and grandkids had to put up with crap. There was internal debate about whether it was worth it to continue ownership even after the contraction crisis passed. Carl's kids and grandkids, some of them anyway, do in fact have a desire to produce a winning team. This notion that they only care about money is antiquated and wrong. And the cheap tag is a harsh one to place on these people. I admit to a bias, in that I know a few of the kids and grandkids, and happen to like and respect some of them.

Second, the new revenue stream has not been in place long enough for us to witness any dramatic changes in the W-L column. But good things are happening, and we should start to see the results on the field as early as 2014, and we'll see glimpses (players) of the future next year. They are spending! Sano is an obvious example. They picked up a top five international prospect, and signed Australia's best prospect (a pitcher! a pitcher!).

MWW, I totally agree with you that they must find one or two #2-type starters from outside the system for 2013. (Let someone else overspend for Greinke and Hamels please). You think they won't and I think they will. And Jack, I think you believe they should go hogwild and sign Greinke, right? I agree with many others here that that would not be smart money. They can skin the cat without going there.

One last point: one would expect an organization drafting in the second half, usually bottom third, of the draft for a decade to have a middle-of-the-road farm system, right? That's about 500 rounds of second-half choices. And they arguably lacked the resources to compete internationally for many of those years. You can count on one hand the number of current aces that were on the board when the Twin's number got called. So it has always bugged me a little bit that, because the system isn't first-rate, that the Twins' scouting, development, coaching, front office, ownership, and peanut vending personnel are all incompetent.

Again, great discussion. Thanks.

I have never called them incompetent, my contention has always been this:

If you refuse to sign bigtime free agents or to trade prospect for bigtime legit MLB players in their prime eanring years, you have to be one of the best in the entire league at drafting and developing. If that is your strategy, then you have to follow it. You have to go over slot (in the past) a lot to get great players. You need to sign international guys. You need players to get better and better minor league coaching. You need to trade better than everyone else.

but, imo, they have not done that. They have not been one of the best minor league systems, even given their draft position. The Rays kick their butt, even after drafting later as they got better, for example. The Phillies system was loaded, and they dealt for players, and still have some high impact minor leaguers.

So, I'd say they have not truly embraced their strategy. And, they have not held anyone accountable for not succeeding with their strategy. And, they've failed to bring in any outside people into leadership roles, to refresh their approach and ideas. They are a classic example of groupthink, and privately held companies that don't bring in outsiders every once in awhile.

That all said, I hope birdwatcher is right, and they are different this offseason, but it's hard to imagine, given 30+ years of history (or however long there has been FA) of not signing free agents in their prime earining years from outside their own organization.