Thread: Was Willingham Unjustly Snubbed?

Willingham is, IMHO, pretty clearly the Twins MVP this season. He's also 3rd in the majors in WPA - he has had an impact far greater than his already impressive statistics. On the other hand, there are a lot of good outfielders in the AL. So I'll ask... was Willingham not being named to the ASG an injustice?

It sucks for Willingham, but I think he's victim of his positional depth more than anything. He's the Twins' MVP no doubt, but there are a handful of outfielders having better years than him so far. Remember, the ASG is voted on by position, not by worth to one's team. It'd have been nice to see more than one Twin at the game, but they made the right choice in Mauer. Mauer is clearly top 2 as a catcher in most stats so far, whereas Josh is more in the top 10 range for OF.

Nah. Willingham has been great for us and you pull for him making it, but the OF competition is too strong in the A.L.. Mauer was the correct choice.

I think its arguable he's been the Twins MVP, but its not as clear as you're making it. Mauer should be the starting catcher for the AL, while there are plenty of OF's having a better season than Willingham. As far as offensively, an OF is supposed to hit better than catchers. It isn't a good comparison to compare them by offensive numbers only. Mauer is also a much better defender.

I agree that this is unfortunate but not unjust. There are just too many other outfielders who are as good or better, and Mauer is among the top 3 catchers in the AL.

To make up for this, the Twins ought to have a Josh Willingham night.

Trevor Plouffe leads all MLB third basemen in homers, and ranks third in OPS (though he's technically a little short of qualifying). He might have a better case as a snub than Willingham.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Trevor Plouffe leads all MLB third basemen in homers, and ranks third in OPS (though he's technically a little short of qualifying). He might have a better case as a snub than Willingham.

I would almost agree with you, but he's a little late to the party for 2012 IMO. It is pretty tough to bump Beltre and Cabrera as a newcomer.

Everyone knows the All-Star break is a popularity contest judged by the fans, and players know this too. About the only thing it’s good for is it looks better on a player’s résumé. Big names win, which is why Mauer is going. It’s also why Cal Ripken, Jr. went to the All-Star game batting .212 at the end of his career.

In my fictitious world, Willingham and Mauer got to decide who was going to play.

Josh told Joe, "Look Joe, it would be an honor, but I have a family and hot wife that would like me to come home for a couple of days... you have your dog, Lil Kim, and a "fiance" that none of us have ever seen. I'm gonna go home, spend some time with my boys... and you're giving me your 25K All-Star game bonus."

In reality though, it's disappointing because I'm sure all guys would like to say they were an All-Star... but judging by his post-game interview, there are a lot of fans far more disappointed than he is.

Qith a clear All-Star like Mauer, being an MVP for a cellar dwelling team means nothing.

Originally Posted by jm3319

It sucks for Willingham, but I think he's victim of his positional depth more than anything. He's the Twins' MVP no doubt, but there are a handful of outfielders having better years than him so far. Remember, the ASG is voted on by position, not by worth to one's team. It'd have been nice to see more than one Twin at the game, but they made the right choice in Mauer. Mauer is clearly top 2 as a catcher in most stats so far, whereas Josh is more in the top 10 range for OF.

This pretty much echos my thoughts. While Willingham has been better at the plate, Mauer is easily the best catcher in the AL this year so far.

Ron Coomer all-star > Josh Willingham all-star

Josh has had a great season, but in the context of left fielders I don't think you can classify it as a snub.

I am interested about the use of WPA as a measure at this point. I understand a very large sample size (>650 PA) before it stabilizes. So many factors are in play. While it is an interesting stat in highlighting great performance like David Freese's in the playoffs, it may not be as useful as a tool to compare player performance within a season. It is a metric where Willingham stands out at this point. Arbitrarily choosing another metric like fangraph's WAR, Willingham is listed 5th among AL leftfielders. It is really 4th as two Angels are ahead of him.

I would think it would be a snub if by whichever metric were chosen, Willingham was among the top 2 in LF.

I don't want to snub Willingham either. Had he been chosen instead of Mauer or another OF, I don't think anyone would argue that he was undeserving. There are always more deserving players than spots.

I've never been a big all star game fan. Even with home field in the world series as a carrot. The effort isn't enough for my liking.

If you're going to make the game as an unknown home run hitter, you probably should be somewhere near the top of the home run leaders.

Originally Posted by ancestral

Everyone knows the All-Star break is a popularity contest judged by the fans, and players know this too. About the only thing it’s good for is it looks better on a player’s résumé. Big names win, which is why Mauer is going. It’s also why Cal Ripken, Jr. went to the All-Star game batting .212 at the end of his career.

Not necessarily a popularity thing with Ripken, but that is one of my biggest complaints about the game. I'd absolutely want Cal Ripken at the game. Likewise with Derek Jeter or Albert Pujols or Chipper Jones. Those are the STARS of the game. The game has gotten WAY too much to be the "half-season" all stars, and it's ridiculous. I really don't care if Pujols is hitting .210 or .310, if he's still playing, he's one of the top stars of the game, and he should be at the all-star game every season. Only an absolutely out of this world performance by an unknown or rookie player should warrant an All-Star nod, like the performance of Mike Trout this season. Otherwise, the All-Star rosters should almost be predictable from opening day.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

I've never been a big all star game fan. Even with home field in the world series as a carrot. The effort isn't enough for my liking.

It's not even that. It's the crap players who are deciding the game in the late innings because they're putting in some guy who's been mediocre, but he leads the league in a useless stat like RBI or Saves. That guy gets to decide the game in the 9th inning instead of Joey Votto, Albert Pujols, Justin Verlander, or Clayton Kershaw.

Just FYI, Willingham ranks 9th among AL OF in fWAR this season thus far. Span is 13th. Willingham is tied with Mauer for the highest fWAR on the team. Of course, it drops off pretty bad after Span at 3rd with Jamey Carroll 4th, over a full win behind Willingham and Mauer.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Trevor Plouffe leads all MLB third basemen in homers, and ranks third in OPS (though he's technically a little short of qualifying). He might have a better case as a snub than Willingham.

He was also only worth 1.4 fWAR coming into today's game. He doesn't deserve to bump Adrian Beltre or Miguel Cabrera. Even if Ron Washington had wanted to make a point of adding another 3B reserve, he would have had to snub Brett Lawrie (who leads AL 3B with 2.8 fWAR) and Mike Moustakas (2.6 fWAR), as well as Kyle Seager (1.9 fWAR) and Alex Rodriguez (1.5 fWAR, HOF career). The only way to justify that is to say that you don't care about balanced plate performance, defense, track record, or total value; he should be an All-Star just because he's hit a bunch of bombs in the last 6 weeks (after completely sucking for the first 6 weeks).

On Willingham, I agree with the consensus here. He's having a very good season; but, given that there are at least 6 other outfielders who deserve an All-Star reserve spot more than him (including the three who actually made the cut), I can't say that he really got "snubbed."

Love you frightwig, but I could hardly care less about half-season fWAR samples. Nobody takes partial-season UZR scores seriously; why should we put stock into a metric heavily weighted by them?

I'll certainly buy into the argument that he doesn't have the track record or mainstream recognition to justify an appearance. But I won't downplay his production because it was concentrated in one part of the schedule. You could certainly make the case that a guy who's been the most dominant hitter in the league for a month (and counting) ought to be showcased in the ASG. He certainly stands out more at his position, to me, than Willingham, who while awesome is just one of many awesome offensive OFs in the league.