Thread: Brian Dozier Is Not Ready

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Ben Revere may be a good model for this idea I guess.

I know this was painful to type.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Ben Revere may be a good model for this idea I guess.

This season has the potential to really mess with this team for the next few years. I fully expect the Twins to go into 2013 thinking that Revere will bat .325 and Plouffe will hit 40 homers.

Originally Posted by DPJ

I know this was painful to type.

God yes. So far a lot of crow-eating on the Revere front. Guy is really making solid contact - never thought I'd say that.

Originally Posted by Kobs

This season has the potential to really mess with this team for the next few years. I fully expect the Twins to go into 2013 thinking that Revere will bat .325 and Plouffe will hit 40 homers.

Kinda like how Valencia's Rookie year made us think we had a .300 hitter at the Hot Corner for the next decade? Or how Slowey circa. 2008 made the team think they had a solid #2 or #3 starter for the next few years?

I can't see any benefit to shipping Dozier back to Rochester. As long as he's playing almost every day, there isn't really anything to be learned there that can't be learned in the big leagues, and keeping him here has little to no effect on the Twins' season. Let him play. Maybe he won't figure it out, maybe he will, but he can start to prove that one way or another in Minneapolis.

Originally Posted by Kobs

This season has the potential to really mess with this team for the next few years. I fully expect the Twins to go into 2013 thinking that Revere will bat .325 and Plouffe will hit 40 homers.

Numbers lie a lot," Gardenhire told the Pioneer Press

My head is spinning... So much to respond to in this thread.

1. Sending Revere down to AAA did not produce the Ben Revere we are seeing now. Ben puts the ball in play and is freeky fast. That's why he hits over .300 all the time. He's not chasing and pitchers are not afraid of him so he gets good pitches to hit. He's a good hitter... He's just not a power hitter. When the pitches start getting trickier... He will walk more. Revere will be just fine until Hicks or Buxton come to town. I'll never understand how anyone doesn't love having Revere wear a Twins jersey.

2. No reason to send Dozier down unless you feel the guy is standing in the way of a division title this year or you are sure that Free Agent SS X is going to be manning the SS Position next year. Otherwise... There is no one else more ready for his job. Carroll is a baseball player but he's also 83 years old.

3. Plouffe will regress because no one can stay that hot. However because of how dialed in he was. Of course he will playing 3B for awhile. It would take a pretty special idiot not to put him in the line up after witnessing what he showed he was capable of. Plouffe just needs to swing at pitches he can drive and quit going after what the pitcher wants him to hit. Hopefully he learned what he can accomplish by doing just that. A streak like that can do amazing things for young players. It fills them up with a bunch of "I can do this" juice.

Dozier has no business in AAA. The Twins don't have another SS option (unless you count Florimon) until Daniel Santana and Levi Michael. You have to give a player time before sending him back down. Revere and even Valencia are different cases. Revere wasn't playing everyday and wasn't able to make adjustments. Valencia was just being complacent and not producing (plus Plouffe needed a look). Let Dozier continue to have consistent AB's, he already showed potential when he first came up, now he just needs to adjust. It takes young players time.

His spot in the order might not matter but would Dozier benefit from hitting 2nd between Span and Mauer?

Maybe the scouts were right and he can't play SS in the majors?

of all the pieces of consternation, I'm not sure why this is here. Like Pig said, AAA, MN, it doesn't matter. The kid needs to play every day. As well, there are a few decent MI prospects sitting with the 2014/15 teams that will likely bump Dozier during his expensive years, as such, let him play. If he turns into a star, he blocks those kids, otherwise, he becomes some nice trade bait. '

This season is lost, so why people are worried about Brian is beyond me. They have to give him a look. My greater concern is that they are letting Parmalee wither on the bench. That kid needs to play every day too, and quite frankly, I could care less whether it's in MN or in Rochester... My other concern is that there's so little decent starting pitching in this organization to help with the next wave... not a good place to be in.

Originally Posted by diehardtwinsfan

My greater concern is that they are letting Parmalee wither on the bench. That kid needs to play every day too, and quite frankly, I could care less whether it's in MN or in Rochester...

Parmelee must have broke some kind of organizational rule when he was is Rochester. His call up seems more like a punishment than a reward for good performance at AAA - he never plays. All the batting problems that he righted in AAA are probably down the ****ter because of his non existent appearances on the field of play... what a shame.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

My head is spinning... So much to respond to in this thread.

1. Sending Revere down to AAA did not produce the Ben Revere we are seeing now. Ben puts the ball in play and is freeky fast. That's why he hits over .300 all the time.

Ben did some work with the AAA hitting coach and watched some film while he was sent down which he has attributed to making better contact and increasing his ability to hit line-drives. He worked on that in AAA, came back up, and was able to deliver similar results so far. I guess you can make stuff up or defer to the player.

Sometimes if a player needs to work on something or improve their approach it helps to do that against the Jeff Manships of the world rather than Chris Sale.

Originally Posted by TheLeviathan

Ben did some work with the AAA hitting coach and watched some film while he was sent down which he has attributed to making better contact and increasing his ability to hit line-drives. He worked on that in AAA, came back up, and was able to deliver similar results so far. I guess you can make stuff up or defer to the player.

Sometimes if a player needs to work on something or improve their approach it helps to do that against the Jeff Manships of the world rather than Chris Sale.

Seriously... Are you under the impression that I believe Ben Revere went down to AAA had a snickers bar and Played X-box in his hotel room until game time. They watch film in the big leagues as well. No need to go to Rochester for that. I'm sure that Bruno helped and I'm sure Vavra would have been there for him as well. (although the Vavra bashers are lining up for a piece of me now).

He adjusted his hands higher and this got him in the load position quicker. BTW... It was Ben who spotted it on film... Not Bruno. However, even with his hands low... He still made incredible contact and was still freeky fast and he consistently hits over .300 at every level with the only exception being his rookie year last year. And ladies and gentlemen... That was his first taste of consistently facing the Chris Sales of the world.

I'm intrigued... You have my attention... I'm always willing to learn from the masters. Please go on and explain how his 101 PA in AAA and one extra base hit transformed him into the beautiful MLB swan today.

I'm a huge believer in Dozier... When he was called up, I was clamoring for Ray Chang at that time. Dozier was slumping. I would rather they have waited a month to see how he was doing at that time. But I've still seen a guy with generally a good glove. I definitely think he has both the range and the arm to play big league SS. He's definitely got all of the intangibles. I won't pretend to know whether the right thing to do for him is to send him down for 6-8 weeks or to let him work through it with the Twins. This is a rebuilding season, in my opinion, so I'm all for doing whatever they think is the best. Also, I don't care that he's 25. He just turned 25. I'm not saying he'll be a star. I've never said that. But I do think that he can be a very solid major leaguer. If anyone thought he'd be more than that, it's not his fault.

I think that a trip back to AAA might give Dozier a less stressful route to improving his skills. But maybe the people who say that he can do this at the MLB level are correct. Either way, I would like to see Florimon eventually get a chance, even if only as a September call up.

Originally Posted by gmarais66

You people are amazing... Before they called Dozier up, everyone was upset, because he wasn't being called up, now everyone is complaining and saying he needs to be sent down... Dozier belongs with the Twins... He's a smart kid with a good mind for the game... This is where he needs to be to learn how to hit major league hitting... He's not going to learn that at Rochester.... And as is common with many rookies, he shows flashes of what his potential is, while other times he struggles.... By the end of the year I think he'll have settled in a will be playing more consistently, but it's a process... All of his growing pains this year will payoff next season...

I just love how you generalize everyone with that statement. I've held strong to the belief that Dozier should be in AAA before the callup. It was an exciting move at the time to get the fans energized about a new SS, but Dozier has been a complete disappointment and this shouldn't come as a shocker. Currently, he is the worst regular shortstop in the MLB on both sides of the ball. He moved quickly through the minors and I feel like he has finally become overwhelmed on the big stage.

Originally Posted by Riverbrian

I'm sure that Bruno helped and I'm sure Vavra would have been there for him as well. (although the Vavra bashers are lining up for a piece of me now).

You may be right. And if you want to drop the hostility angle you might find this isn't that radical of a suggestion I'm making. Revere, in the very article you're reading from, credits the AAA coaching. He also credits getting regular at-bats and his own film work. So it was some of all of that. You can play make-believe about what might have happened, but what DID happen was the send-down to AAA was good for him for a variety of reasons.

But whether you want to get hung-up on Revere or not, major league teams do this all the time. Whether it is rehab assignments, prospects, or even Adam Lind-types. AAA is a less pressure-filled environment, against lesser competition that players can go to work on their game. Teams can make suggestions to them and help them work on specific parts of their game without all the scrutiny that comes with the big league.

I'm merely suggesting that Dozier is looking worse and worse. His at-bats are not getting better and his fielding is not getting better. Is he the type that a demotion would be irrelevant for? Maybe, but it's hard to see a player regressing and think that the current model is the right way. The Twins shouldn't care about this season and should care about any player that could be helping them in 3 years. Dozier fits that and I'd hate to see them keep him up here at his detriment.

Sometimes "just figure it out" becomes hard when the level of competition is difficult no matter how on your game you are. A break and a chance to focus may benefit him, all I'm saying. Chill.

Originally Posted by clutterheart

Maybe the scouts were right and he can't play SS in the majors?

Not likely. It was questioned whether he could stay at short because of his arm. His range is generally referenced as being average to slightly above average. His hands and his instinct were his selling points as a defender.

Those two things have been his biggest problems during this stint in Minnesota, which makes me think he's just suffering from rookie jitters, taking failures at the plate out to the field and vice versa. It's a vicious circle and hopefully, it's one he will overcome with experience.

tk used to say that you don't know what you have in a player till you give him 2000 at bats. most of us would find that laughable - that's four full seasons before you cut bait. but the premise there is right - you need to give a guy a chance to adapt at this level and play through it or you're no closer to knowing what you have than before you called him up. this season is a grind and most seem to forget about that on a regular basis.

i'm a big fan of theo epstein and would've been stoked beyond belief if he'd have taken over for billy bob. his theory that there are no 4a players, just guys that haven't had enough ab's/ip's in the majors has merit and he's proved it with bryan lahair this year.