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Jim, I agree. No matter what, salary is coming off the books next year. Unless the Twins get a really good offer, no reason to start dumping.
I tend to think Mr. Ryan is going to go after a marque free agent pitcher next year, if the Twins are unable to trade for some top quality help the rotation next year prospects. (Liriano may very well stick around next year, if Ryan signs a top of the rotation pitcher)
The Twins have to be blown away with an offer for Morneau, Span, even Capps or Willingham. The question is Liriano. They HAVE to trade him as they won't arbitrate, which means no draft choice. Getting rid of Pavano will bring a minor league player with some known upside...if he gets healthy. I'm sure EVERY contending team is looking at the Twins roster. How it all plays out depends on who and what other teams are dumping.
All I know is, Mr. Ryan has been very grumpy and stressed when he comes into the lunch room lately. He is certainly facing some tough decisions, without easy and obvious answers.
Why do they need to be blown away with an offer for Capps?Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosterman
I agree with only trading Span/Willingham/Morneau if you can get back very good value in return.
I didn't mention Capps in my article, but I'd probably put him in the category of a player not figuring in to 2013's plans. He's sort of a "tweener" though (if he gets healthy) because, while he's not locked up for 2013, the Twins hold a pretty friendly option ($6 million, $250K buyout) on him for 2013. I'm not as down on Capps as almost everyone else seems to be, but right now I probably wouldn't exercise that $6 mil option. But I wouldn't take just a bucket of balls for him from the first team that makes an offer, either. If he establishes that he's healthy when he comes off the DL, there will be a market for him and I'm not nearly as concerned about him imploding and losing all value as I am about Liriano.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosterman
I would start with Morneau who appaers to have gone "soft" at the plate (witness his splits against lefties). He is long passed the days when he would stand in as an intimidating and immovable force at the plate. Save the money. Move Mauer to first and work with Doumit and Butera behind the plate.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Crikket
Would be willing to offer up Pavano. Think the Twins have milked as much health as he appears to have. Suspect he is moving into one of his fragile periods.
Would keep Span to see if it looks like Hicks or Bruxton are going to actually develop. Like Revere for speed and chemistry a team that has apitch to contact staff can't afford his arm in right. As for Liriano, I would keep him and sit him down with films of Jim Kaat the day before each of his starts. When Liriano brings the ball and his weight to the plate like Kaat always did he is pretty darn good. When he starts trying to over throw it like Mijares he's a lost cause.
Wouldn't let go of Willingham as he looks to provide some pop and a little stability. Would hope you could make a right fielder out of him so you could move revere to left.
Again, Butera should not be on a MLB roster. If you're advocating that Mauer move to first base, you have to go find another catcher to play on a daily basis, preferably one that isn't god-awful. Doumit doesn't catch well enough and can't seem to stay healthy enough to do it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskerboy
"But I wouldn't take just a bucket of balls for him from the first team that makes an offer, either."
I, on the other hand, WOULD take a bucket of balls for him . . . (Matt Capps)
I don't understand why, on a team as desparate for starting pitching as the Twins, it's a given that Liriano doesn't figure into their plans for 2013 and beyond. Where are they going to get a pitcher, or pitchers, with similar stuff and upside for similar money?
I continue to wish the Twins would go to Liriano and try hard to get him to agree to a reasonable 3 yr extension. He gets some stability and enough guaranteed money to stop worrying about next year's paycheck every time he takes the mound. The Twins get some cost certainty and at least the possibility of a top of the rotation starter.
If he refuses, then yeah, think about trading him at or around the deadline. But at least try first.
Third game in a row where the Twins received an excellent effort from the starter. Given that Duensing hadn't started all year, and between Duensing and Swarzak they kept the game against Cincy on Saturday from being an embarrassment, I think we can suggest without any hint of irony that for the first time this season (since Blackburn hey! got the win on Friday) that the Twins have gone through the entire rotation one time without being entirely out of a game. Win 3, lose 2 with good starting pitching - do that for awhile and you've got something. But that's the rub - it's got to last awhile. One time through the rotation is not enough to raise hopes overmuch.
Because if Blackburn stinks it up tomorrow and Duensing reverts to August '11 form in his next few starts and Hendricks tonight was the anomaly - blow'em up.
Keep Morneau because for sure he's at his bottom of value, let's not pull a bad trade out of impatience. Based on what we've seen of Parmelee this year getting hit by the pitch was his only hope of reaching base tonight but by golly! he managed to take one for the team! Wouldn't want to have to write his name down everyday at 1B, so let's give Morneau this year and early into next to drive up his value - consider him as if he were a call-up at this point. Cripes, the guy has barely played for 2 years. No reason this organization with the record it has and the money sunk into him can't afford to have patience with Dudley Dooright for another few months into early next. If he turns it around, and reverts to form, we're talking about one of the best hitters in baseball. It's a long shot, but the Twins have the opportunity to ride that bet for the rest of this season and early into next, np.
Trade value for Liriano is rising, no question about that. If the Twins stay mired and it continues rising he's gone by 7/31 for a decent return, hopefully to some team where he won't hurt the Twins much in future meetups and they have promising young pitchers to devote to the Twins' cause. Mauer trade value is low because of the contract, and at this point I wouldn't trade Willingham or Span or Revere - those 4 guys make the offense look great at times. Add Morneau Plouffe Doumit Dozier, nothing really wrong with that.
Fix the rotation, Terry! Assuming (in pretty much descending order at this point) Diamond, Hendricks, Blackburn, Duensing, Gibson, Wimmer are in the mix for '13, all TR needs to do is add a few more starters to raise the level of competition - maybe thru a Liriano trade or from the minors or through the draft or another Rule 5 flyer or through some traded parts - and who knows, this team could be very competitive next year in this division.
I think most of us are just tired of the peaks and valleys (mostly the valleys) of Liriano's career, but I wouldn't object to a "reasonable" extension offer, either. I suspect, however, that he and his agent have a higher definition of "reasonable" than I (and more importantly, the Twins) do. What do you think would be "reasonable"?
Agree just trying to limp throught the rest of the year. Adress 1B/C situation along with SP in offseason. Primary motivation would be calling it quits on Morneau.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketpig