Thread: Nishioka

I had already forgotten about his existence, thanks for reminding me....

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback this move, but I'm good with the gamble. Yeah, we lost this one, but I'd rather see a team that takes risks in an effort to improve than one that either stands pat in hopes that what it has is good enough (or makes a bunch of Tony Bautista-type low-risk, low-reward signings.)

Better to swing for the fences with the game on the line than get caught looking with the bat on your shoulder.

The problem with over spending for a turd like Nishioka is the Twins already had a perfectly fine SS on the roster, that is the most frustrating. If they wanted to go make a high risk move then they should have tried to bring in a pitcher or a player that filled a need at the time.

Originally Posted by SpiritofVodkaDave

The problem with over spending for a turd like Nishioka is the Twins already had a perfectly fine SS on the roster, that is the most frustrating. If they wanted to go make a high risk move then they should have tried to bring in a pitcher or a player that filled a need at the time.

Jesus, Dave... JJ Hardy hits way too many homeruns to play shortstop. Everybody knows that.

Nishi isn't even worth discussing at this point.

Originally Posted by cr9617

Nishi isn't even worth discussing at this point.

He still counts another 1.5 million this year and another 3 million next year towards the payroll, so yes, unfortunately he is still part of the discussion.

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

It's easy to Monday morning quarterback this move, but I'm good with the gamble. Yeah, we lost this one, but I'd rather see a team that takes risks in an effort to improve than one that either stands pat in hopes that what it has is good enough (or makes a bunch of Tony Bautista-type low-risk, low-reward signings.)

Better to swing for the fences with the game on the line than get caught looking with the bat on your shoulder.

The Twins organization was making excuses for the guy's incompetent level of play from the day he took the field in spring training ( I believe that's called a "tell"). Nishi's biggest break of 2011 was when he broke his leg. That enabled the FO to extend the pretense that they had a bona-fide major league middle infielder, meanwhile they put their bold gamble on hold, hoping to draw an inside straight, all the while utilizing a grand bluff on the public that it somehow would all work out, only to continue the excuses and double-down on the stupid with the move to SS!- where he was even more exposed- until finally Gardy was allowed to admit he was busted and folded his hand.

At least Hardy could fulfill your dream and actually swing for the fences with the game on the line- with a decent chance to roll a 7, whereas Nishi's fractured swing always seemd to shoot snake-eyes.

Yes the Nishioka trade has turned out to be an utter complete failure, but honestly, I don't know that Hardy would have stayed wether they got Nishi or not. As I recall, there were rumors that he would be leaving the team before rumors started that Nishioka might be coming to us. Hardy didn't exactly do a great job with Twins in 2010 either. He was coming off the worst season of his career, and didn't improve all that much at the plate and actually did WORSE in the field. He hit 6 homers that year. In 2010, Plouffe was still considered a SS and hit 15 HR's in the minors, and 2 HR's in only 22 games with the Twins. My guess is that had Nishi not been signed, Plouffe would have come to ST battling for a starting spot in the IF and Hardy would still have been traded.

The Twins absolutely failed on this signing... but I hope it doesn't scare them away from Japan for good. Yu Darvish is evidence that talent can come out of that league.

I really like the extra emphasis international signings have taken since the building of target field. One of the less publicized benefits of the extra revenue.

I don't think the Metrodome era Twins take the risk they did on Sano.

Originally Posted by spideyo

Yes the Nishioka trade has turned out to be an utter complete failure, but honestly, I don't know that Hardy would have stayed wether they got Nishi or not. As I recall, there were rumors that he would be leaving the team before rumors started that Nishioka might be coming to us. Hardy didn't exactly do a great job with Twins in 2010 either. He was coming off the worst season of his career, and didn't improve all that much at the plate and actually did WORSE in the field. He hit 6 homers that year. In 2010, Plouffe was still considered a SS and hit 15 HR's in the minors, and 2 HR's in only 22 games with the Twins. My guess is that had Nishi not been signed, Plouffe would have come to ST battling for a starting spot in the IF and Hardy would still have been traded.

1. There was no "Nishioka trade." He was signed as a free agent after the Twins won bidding rights.
2. "Rumors?" The only rumors were coming from the Twins. Hardy was in his last yr of arb eligibility in 2011 and was under team control. WTF are you talking about?
3. Hardy hit .268/.320/.394 for the Twins. Not great, but pretty damn solid for a SS. In the second half, when he was over his injury, he put up a .304/.363/.442 line in over 200 PAs.
4. Hardy absolutely did NOT do "worse" in the field. Very solid SS.

Other than missing on virtually every "fact," nice post.

I would hope that the Twins would at least explore whether they could save some money by sending Nishi back to Japan. This could be a win-win for everyone.

It's refreshing to see JJ Hardy threads again. Perhaps the good old days aren't so far away after all. Would Nick care to join in this discussion? I see an Orlando Hudson comment in your future!

JJ Hardy is a nice player but I think the gushing over him is a bit excessive. You'd think we were talking about the second coming of Ernie Banks here.

He had the power surge last year, but his numbers so far this year are pretty similar to Doumit's. And for good reason, I don't see a whole lot of gushing over Doumit.


The Nishioka issue aside, I'd rather be developing Dozier than overpaying Hardy.
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I still wonder, who in the organization was responsible for recommending Nishioka. Its one thing to miss on draft picks and prospects but the scouting on Nishi was absolute incompetence. Is this person or persons, still with us? Bill Smith went on advice and recommendations. I will not point the finger torwards him on this one.

I vaguely recall a named scout connected to Nishi. There was (evidently and obviously) a glowing scouting recommendation for Nishi internal to the Front Office. I wonder if that scout still works for the Twins.

Originally Posted by Pseudofool

I vaguely recall a named scout connected to Nishi. There was (evidently and obviously) a glowing scouting recommendation for Nishi internal to the Front Office. I wonder if that scout still works for the Twins.

Actually I remember coming across a copy of the scouting report on Nishioka (it was floating around online at some point, I think). It really wasn't that complimentary. Basically said he had the tools to be maybe a decent MLB regular, not a star. Clearly even that proved to be inaccurate, but the Twins must have been going off something other than straight scouting input to make this decision.

Originally Posted by Pseudofool

I vaguely recall a named scout connected to Nishi. There was (evidently and obviously) a glowing scouting recommendation for Nishi internal to the Front Office. I wonder if that scout still works for the Twins.

WANTED
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THESE INDIVIDUALS MAY BE MASQURATING AS BASEBALL TALENT SCOUTS OR FRONT OFFICE PERSONAL.
DO NOT ATTEMPT TO APPROACH. IF SPOTTED, CONTACT A TWINS DAILY BLOGGER IMMEDIATELY.
AN AWARD FUND OF 2 STANDING ROOM TICKETS TO THE SEPTEMBER 13 KANSAS CITY GAME HAS BEEN ESTABLISHED FOR INFORMATION LEADING TO THE CRITICISM OF THESE INDIVIDUALS.

Maybe someone should have read this scout's report: http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index...s-on-nishioka/

Wasn't the whole Nishi thing supposed to bring in $$$'s from Japan as the folks there got to see one of their stars play on the big stage. Didn't the Twins envision thousands of Nishi jersey being sold in Toyko? Broadcasting the beauty of Target Field to all those possible customers who might swing by as they visited the Mall of America? I have the funny feeling there was a money component to this that had nothing to do with baseball. I believe that part of this was expanding the Twins brand past the United States. When baseball reality meets marketing plans it is not always pretty.

Originally Posted by one_eyed_jack

JJ Hardy is a nice player but I think the gushing over him is a bit excessive. You'd think we were talking about the second coming of Ernie Banks here.

He had the power surge last year, but his numbers so far this year are pretty similar to Doumit's. And for good reason, I don't see a whole lot of gushing over Doumit.


The Nishioka issue aside, I'd rather be developing Dozier than overpaying Hardy.
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Agree that Hardy has become one of those players that people like to inflate from reality to fit their narrative that the Twins are stupid and dumb and all the other teams are smart. That said, I didn't really get why he was let go when he was. And also, Doumit doesn't play a lot of shortstop, so that's probably not a great comparison. And on the opposite side of that, I think Doumit has been given a fair amount of credit for his contributions this year. As may be clear, I don't really have a point here!

Originally Posted by Highabove

I still wonder, who in the organization was responsible for recommending Nishioka. Its one thing to miss on draft picks and prospects but the scouting on Nishi was absolute incompetence. Is this person or persons, still with us? Bill Smith went on advice and recommendations. I will not point the finger torwards him on this one.

I will probably always wonder about this as well. Was it a failure of the scouting department? Did marketing concerns override scouting reservations? Did Dave St. Peter as team Pres (and marketing strategist) play a role in the baseball side of the operations in this instance?

I'm sure we'll never know. Personally I'm convinced that it was a complete organizational failure (and that, for that reason, no one will ever have to take responsibility). I suspect that the scouting reports were "just good enough" that the final decision-makers allowed marketing considerations to overcome any reservations that may have been in those reports (in a way that they wouldn't have done if they player had been from the U.S.) This was also done at the time when they were riding high on new TF revenues -- allowing them to take a risk that they wouldn't have taken earlier.

But I doubt we'll ever know for sure.