Thread: The Twins and Their Supposed "Outfield Depth"

Originally Posted by jokin

Where do you think he stole the idea from?

Wow. It was an honest mistake and totally missed his post. No need to be a jerk about it. As mentioned, I browsed the recent forum topics as I hadn't read much here in a few days to try and avoid duplication. I didn't comb through the blogs, though.

As for the reading Souhan bit, it wasn't just him, but there were a lot of people on this site who were putting lineups together in a thread for 2014 or 15 or whatever that included Hicks, Revere, and or,Benson, as well as most of the discussion about Span being about traded because we have outfield depth. I definitely didn't mean to start a should we read Souhan or shouldn't we discussion.

Originally Posted by Alex

Wow. It was an honest mistake and totally missed his post. No need to be a jerk about it. As mentioned, I browsed the recent forum topics as I hadn't read much here in a few days to try and avoid duplication. I didn't comb through the blogs, though.

As for the reading Souhan bit, it wasn't just him, but there were a lot of people on this site who were putting lineups together in a thread for 2014 or 15 or whatever that included Hicks, Revere, and or,Benson, as well as most of the discussion about Span being about traded because we have outfield depth. I definitely didn't mean to start a should we read Souhan or shouldn't we discussion.

Double-Wow! Alex this was a jab at Souhan, not you. I thought it was obvious within the context of the discussion. Your analysis is always thoughtful and well-appreciated by me.

Originally Posted by jokin

Double-Wow! Alex this was a jab at Souhan, not you. I thought it was obvious within the context of the discussion. Your analysis is always thoughtful and well-appreciated by me.

Fair enough. As it was Seth replying to a thread I started, it seemed that the "he" in your thread was me. Thanks for the clarification.

Prospects/young non-prospects:

AAA: Ramirez, and at some point this year (again . . .) Benson and Tosoni
AA: Hicks, Herrmann (as 4th/5th OF on top of catching), and eventually Arcia
A+: Morales, Ortiz, Ray, Rams
A-: JD Williams, Leachman, Roberts
Below: Byron Buxton, Dereck Rodriguez

I still consider this overall OF depth.

Originally Posted by shanewahl

Prospects/young non-prospects:

AAA: Ramirez, and at some point this year (again . . .) Benson and Tosoni
AA: Hicks, Herrmann (as 4th/5th OF on top of catching), and eventually Arcia
A+: Morales, Ortiz, Ray, Rams
A-: JD Williams, Leachman, Roberts
Below: Byron Buxton, Dereck Rodriguez

I still consider this overall OF depth.

I like the idea of Hermann becoming the next Doumit, IMO, the rest of this list is mostly "young non-prospects" rather than the former. Maybe, Benson comes around, I have high hopes for Arcia. I would still argue that the best two potential ML OFers at A- might be Rosario and Sano. Did you intentionally omit Walker from this list (DH only? He stole alot of bases for Jacksonville)?

Originally Posted by jokin

I like the idea of Hermann becoming the next Doumit, IMO, the rest of this list is mostly "young non-prospects" rather than the former. Maybe, Benson comes around, I have high hopes for Arcia. I would still argue that the best two potential ML OFers at A- might be Rosario and Sano. Did you intentionally omit Walker from this list (DH only? He stole alot of bases for Jacksonville)?

Oops, no I just forgot to add Walker. I still think it is possible for Tosoni to be a contributor, and Ramirez could too. Hicks will be fine. Good, not great. Morales is a question mark, but Ortiz and Ray are young and promising.

I hope that Rosario makes it as a second baseman. And I think Sano probably becomes a first baseman.

Herrmann is a defensive upgrade over Doumit. I just hope he is ready by the beginning of next season!

I have been as critical of Benson as most on this site. A very good athlete--but, is he a baseball player? However, he has big upside if it all comes together. Remember he was a full scholarship at Purdue in football, and it has always taken him a little longer to conquer a level than most high level players. As far as Hicks is concerned--(saw him play in Florida) and he has all the tools-size, strength, speed, etc to be a very good major leaguer-ala Tori Hunter. Both of these guys just need time-- it could all come together. Now Buxton is a different situation from the start. He is a baseball player(watch the videos) who just needs some seasoning. But, if all comes to fruition those three together will make a heck of an outfield. I think the Twins look at it that way!

Originally Posted by peterb18

I have been as critical of Benson as most on this site. A very good athlete--but, is he a baseball player? However, he has big upside if it all comes together. Remember he was a full scholarship at Purdue in football, and it has always taken him a little longer to conquer a level than most high level players. As far as Hicks is concerned--(saw him play in Florida) and he has all the tools-size, strength, speed, etc to be a very good major leaguer-ala Tori Hunter. Both of these guys just need time-- it could all come together. Now Buxton is a different situation from the start. He is a baseball player(watch the videos) who just needs some seasoning. But, if all comes to fruition those three together will make a heck of an outfield. I think the Twins look at it that way!

I also like the potential upgrade in athleticism this trio has to offer. For the first two, though, the clock is ticking, and the time for them being in the "development and projection" stage of their careers is coming near the end and the "hoping and wishing" stage is soon upon us- I think both you and I, and the Twins, agree with your last sentiment, right now the big word in that last sentence is not "fruition", it's "IF".

If Benson had continued to progress at AAA, I would have said Span or especially Revere was expendable. With his demotion and DL time, though, I don't see him as someone the Twins can count on for opening day 2013. I'd hang onto all the outfielders until he's ready. Willingham, Span and Revere are all under team-friendly terms through at least 2014 - they'll be tradable next year, too. That said, if somebody's desperate this summer and wants to overpay, trade away.

For anyone doubting Hicks, take a look at Denard Span's numbers in New Britain. Hicks looks to be Span with more power, less contact, and better all-around defense.

Originally Posted by shanewahl

For anyone doubting Hicks, take a look at Denard Span's numbers in New Britain. Hicks looks to be Span with more power, less contact, and better all-around defense.

I wondered when someone would bring him up. Span's an anamoly. Most players don't put up better numbers in the majors than they do in the minors, though he seemed to figure things out at AAA.

Originally Posted by shanewahl

Prospects/young non-prospects:

AAA: Ramirez, and at some point this year (again . . .) Benson and Tosoni
AA: Hicks, Herrmann (as 4th/5th OF on top of catching), and eventually Arcia
A+: Morales, Ortiz, Ray, Rams
A-: JD Williams, Leachman, Roberts
Below: Byron Buxton, Dereck Rodriguez

I still consider this overall OF depth.

I guess I consider that minor league depth or prospect depth, not overall organizational depth. When all the true talent/hope is below AA and just drafted, there's a lot that can happen between now and then, as we've seen with Benson and Hicks. There's not a single player there that we can project to be a legitimate starter in the next two years.

Originally Posted by Alex

I guess I consider that minor league depth or prospect depth, not overall organizational depth. When all the true talent/hope is below AA and just drafted, there's a lot that can happen between now and then, as we've seen with Benson and Hicks. There's not a single player there that we can project to be a legitimate starter in the next two years.

I concur (although Benson and Hicks could very well see some time as "tryout" starters in 2014, depending on who stays and who goes), and posted in this thread at #20 that 2015 is when the Twins think the "new era" will commence. Between then and now, I can guess more of the same status quo, keep-it-palatable-to-the-public, PR games from management.

Originally Posted by shanewahl

Prospects/young non-prospects:

AAA: Ramirez, and at some point this year (again . . .) Benson and Tosoni
AA: Hicks, Herrmann (as 4th/5th OF on top of catching), and eventually Arcia
A+: Morales, Ortiz, Ray, Rams
A-: JD Williams, Leachman, Roberts
Below: Byron Buxton, Dereck Rodriguez

I still consider this overall OF depth.

Got to add Adam Bret Walker II there some place, Max Keppel and I would argue maybe even Sano. There is a 17 year old kid in the Dominican called Junior Amarante who is another name to know from there. Danny Santana and Jairo Perez have both been playing a bit in the OF at Fort Myers, and Rosario is around in Beloit. so the Twins have some options.


About the Revere discussion. Revere has been hitting .307/.337/.409 a pretty respectable .746 OPS (109 OPS+) that is actually higher than Span's And he has been playing better than Span lately and his glove is better than Span's. I would absolutely not mind if here replaces Span at this point, if the latter brings something (SP) back. Revere came back from AAA changed. Hope Parmelee is too...

Compared to other teams... The Twins DO NOT have OF depth.

Compared to the Current Pitching in the Twins Organization... The OF is the Mariana Trench.

If you guys want to be all sensible and point out that the Twins actually don't have OF depth... Well Damn You... you are completely crushing our dreams... Give us some hope please.

Without a doubt...OF is our deepest position organizationally. Actually OF depth would be 2nd in the organization.

1st would be Fox North Girls... We seem to have a bunch of those cuz we can toss others aside like Bobby Abreu.

No one talks about something Revere brings to the Twins that I believe is very important...energy! Some combination of that smile and speed just seems to get things happening. I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I see the Twins winning more when he is in the lineup every day. Not necessarily the offensive numbers and certainly not the arm, but he just brings added energy that makes the game more fun which seems to lead to more wins.

Originally Posted by twinsnorth49

I long ago decided the only way to rid myself of Souhan loathing was to stop reading him, so I did. I am cleansed.

I tend to agree on most of his articles but the thing that got me about this article in particular was that he criticized the Twins front office for making bad trades or at least not getting value in return...and yes he's right for the most part. Then he suggest we sell high which OK don't disagree with that either but then he goes onto say something like they should trade Liriano if he continues to go well but they should trade him if he does'nt???? Can't have it both ways Jim you want then to get value in return but trade players for the sake of trading them. IDK that's the way I read it.....anyway he's more or less a bore to read...never anything earth shattering.

Originally Posted by roger

No one talks about something Revere brings to the Twins that I believe is very important...energy! Some combination of that smile and speed just seems to get things happening. I don't know if anyone else agrees, but I see the Twins winning more when he is in the lineup every day. Not necessarily the offensive numbers and certainly not the arm, but he just brings added energy that makes the game more fun which seems to lead to more wins.

Totally agree. And the Twins' as an organization unfortunately do not value that. Look at the energy their manager brings. Then look at the energy that someone like GoGo brought and you know what happened with him.... for some strange reason these Twins like low key robotic type of guys. They call that "professional"

Originally Posted by thrylos98

Totally agree. And the Twins' as an organization unfortunately do not value that. Look at the energy their manager brings. Then look at the energy that someone like GoGo brought and you know what happened with him.... for some strange reason these Twins like low key robotic type of guys. They call that "professional"

That's probably why you never hear anyone involved with the Twins mention Puckett. And I'm sure Hrbek's number was retired because of how "professional" he was. Certainly they would never overpay (according to many) or overplay (according to many) someone like Punto who was all energy. And they sure shipped Cuddyer and his smile and his hustle off as quickly as they could. And nobody but nobody got fewer chances than the probably-under-ready Carlos Gomez who absolutely did NOT play the same position as someone who was, you know, better.

Originally Posted by thrylos98

About the Revere discussion. Revere has been hitting .307/.337/.409 a pretty respectable .746 OPS (109 OPS+) that is actually higher than Span's And he has been playing better than Span lately and his glove is better than Span's. I would absolutely not mind if here replaces Span at this point, if the latter brings something (SP) back. Revere came back from AAA changed. Hope Parmelee is too...

I definitely hope Revere's done something that has changed his swing definitively and he's going to hit for a higher average and keep getting extra base hits, and it definitely looks like it's possible, but we do have to be leery of a small sample size at least for the moment with him (I assume I don't need to quote the number of players who looked good for a small sample size this year, earning them a spot, only to find out they weren't ready).

As for Revere's defense, I don't think there can be much doubt that he'll be a fielder with better range than Span, but that arm has been getting run on like crazy.