Thread: Josh Willingham trade value?

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Do you think they really believed they were going to be able to contend this year? Look at how far away they are. One starter wasn't going to make the difference and they probably understood that.

Also, Jackson wasn't going to sign in the AL when all he's doing is trying to do is maintain/boost his value on a one-year deal to take another shot at FA next winter.

No, I didn't think they believed they were going to be able to contend, my argument on the other thread was just that, in that they had grossly misallocated resources. I profferred a scenario to make a quick fix to carry the team over until the next cycle of players are ready. I agree that one starter wouldn't have made a difference, but given the state of the pitching staff, and the promise made to the community, it was incumbent on the Twins to hit the pitching FA market hard, attempt to get not one, but three starters. The Twins actually did less than nothing, by acquiring Marquis, who obviously had nothing left. Jackson would have been a tough get, but you can't make a blanket statement with certainty about what Jackson would or wouldn't do, especially once Ryan and the agent get into the same room, you never know what can happen when/if/as the agent's, player's and GM's agendas converge (IE "pitcher-friendly" park, cheaper COL rate, an extra $Million or two, agent's other FAs, etc.) and he was a late signee showing there was time to negotiate.

Maholm is a National league pitcher. That makes him worse than comparible stats from the American league.
Twins need to find out how many of their minor league outfielders will make the grade, I have serious doubts about Benson ever being major league quality.
Unless TR gets a deal he can't refuse, Willingham should be here this year and to the middle of next
You have to pitch to win, but bying 3 type 3 or better SP will be expensive.
Doumit will be a much better trade canidate this year as will Span.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

Do you think they really believed they were going to be able to contend this year? Look at how far away they are. One starter wasn't going to make the difference and they probably understood that.

I'm not so sure the Twins completely wrote off contending in 2012. I know it's mostly just PR for public consumption, but pretty much everything coming out of the Twins mouths for the past 12 months has been about injuries and bad luck. If they were convinced they had no shot in 2012, why sign Carroll? Doumit? Willingham? For that matter, why sign Marquis?

Hell, I'm not even convinced Twins management is ready to admit the severity of the situation to themselves or the public today. There's a certain, I don't know, arrogance to the whole Twins management regime that hasn't evaporated yet.

Rule 1. Never pay a Closer for a non contending Team.

Ryan paid over 4.5 million tight budget dollars + 1st round draft pick for a Closer.

A. Ryan must have believed that the Twins would be a contender.

B. Ryan has turned stupid the second time around.

Which is it? It has to be one or the other!

If the Twins do indeed intend on trading the likes of Willingham, Span, or whomever, they better have their eyes focused on a grand prize. MLB GM's are tight fisted when it comes to giving up top prospects. That is the game now. You need an upper echelon player to fetch upper echelon prospects. Willingham and Span are very good players, but do not constitute that brand. We would better off holding on to them rather than trading them for a supposed future #4 Starter. As a fan, if that kind of trade went down, that would most definitely sink my ship.

Originally Posted by Bark's Lounge

If the Twins do indeed intend on trading the likes of Willingham, Span, or whomever, they better have their eyes focused on a grand prize. MLB GM's are tight fisted when it comes to giving up top prospects. That is the game now. You need an upper echelon player to fetch upper echelon prospects. Willingham and Span are very good players, but do not constitute that brand. We would better off holding on to them rather than trading them for a supposed future #4 Starter. As a fan, if that kind of trade went down, that would most definitely sink my ship.

It seems to me that most of us would agree that a "supposed #4 starter" would not be enough. The issue for many seems to be what would it take for us to feel good about such a trade. A potential #2 starter? A potential #3 starter plus a risky single A starter? Who can say for sure what a contender might offer if they feel a desperate need for a right handed batter with power?

Originally Posted by jokin

'I would have thought it impossible to defend Duensing's performance last year, if that wasn't an exposure of one man's limitations, I'm not certain what else would be. Maholm's mediocre career .281/1.42/4.37 is statistically different enough that Maholm has been a career starter exclusively and Deunsing has apparently convinced the Twins he is only a glorified LOOGY

He wasn't that bad last year. Second-most IP on the team, 4.07 xFIP, solid K/BB ratio. Gave up a lot of hits but there was some bad luck and bad defense involved with that. I think calling his season an unmitigated disaster is a bit over-the-top.

To me, the Twins' decision to keep Duensing in the bullpen is more about playing to his strengths. The guy is elite when it comes to shutting down lefty hitters and you really mask that skill by playing him as a starter and letting opponents stack their lineups with righties. With that being said, I think he's a better option than some of the guys the club's throwing out there right now (such as Swarzak and DeVries... possibly Blackburn) so at this point I'm not opposed to giving him a shot even if it's not ideal.

Originally Posted by USAFChief

If they were convinced they had no shot in 2012, why sign Carroll? Doumit? Willingham? For that matter, why sign Marquis?

One word: Stopgaps.

I'm not saying the Twins felt they had NO chance to compete this year. I just think they felt like the odds were slim enough that it wasn't worth investing $10M to add one extra pitcher. And they were right.

Originally Posted by Highabove

Rule 1. Never pay a Closer for a non contending Team.

Ryan paid over 4.5 million tight budget dollars + 1st round draft pick for a Closer.

A. Ryan must have believed that the Twins would be a contender.

B. Ryan has turned stupid the second time around.

Which is it? It has to be one or the other!

When it comes to Capps, logic seems to go out the window.