Thread: Gardy's Club Influence

Seems like a silly question (especially from someone who understands the complexities of arbitration and the baseball offseason), but what does Gardy actually do besides fill out the lineup sheets? What does he do outside of the game is a better way to put it. I think it's important to know, because many attribute the fall of the Twins to him; whereas, I don't think a manager change really does too much in terms of wins and losses.

Originally Posted by YourHouseIsMyHouse

Seems like a silly question (especially from someone who understands the complexities of arbitration and the baseball offseason), but what does Gardy actually do besides fill out the lineup sheets? What does he do outside of the game is a better way to put it. I think it's important to know, because many attribute the fall of the Twins to him; whereas, I don't think a manager change really does too much in terms of wins and losses.

No one really knows, therefore this discussion is - at best - uninformed. How much impact does a manager truly have? In most cases I think it's very little.

If there is any argument to have Gardenhire replaced, it is pretty much a change of voice scenario. There are some like Thrylos and his minions who want to have Ron's head on a stake, but Gardy has done a pretty good job. You don't win Manager of the Year Awards if you are not respected amongst your peers and execute to a higher degree. If a change was made during the season, it would be a super shocker. If Gardy is out, it is probable the whole staff is gone as well. I can see a resignation this offseason if there isn't a major shift in progression this season and that does not necessarily mean wins vs. losses and no one except maybe Jerry White would be allowed to return to the MLB coaching staff if that scenario happens. I was reading a thread earlier today that brought up the name of Mike Redmond - If that change was made, I would be pretty stoked about that. If no player on the team has a fiery and leadership personality, I think Red Dog could fill both of those roles. It will be rebuilding no matter who holds the mantle of field manager. If you are to start over and trying to establish a new identity - Redmond fits the bill.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

No one really knows, therefore this discussion is - at best - uninformed. How much impact does a manager truly have? In most cases I think it's very little.

I agree with this.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

No one really knows, therefore this discussion is - at best - uninformed. How much impact does a manager truly have? In most cases I think it's very little.

I believe this as well, I've been trying to say it for weeks.

I do think that when teams are of equal ability then the right manager does make a difference. I don't know how many games over the season; but, there would be some. Gardy's biggest attribute is his personality and working with today's high priced athletes. That is big for management today. However, I do think that Gardy is average at best(or over-rated) in strategy. Example: In tonights game--5th inning)--Santana is starting to get wild--walks a couple of guys, etc. then Spann goes after the first pitch. Even a good Legion, or High School coach--would say, Let's take some pitches and make him work. Doing what Spann did is not the supposed, "Twins Way".

Well, I haven't voted yet. But I have always thought that Gardenhire's best quality was an ability to keep the club on a relatively even keel -- not let them get too high or too low. And I thought that he did better in an underdog role than in a favorites role. All personal impressions but I'm not sure there is any other way to judge a manager.

I have also commented many times in the past that I thought the even keel mentality worked well over the course of a long season but was a detriment to the team over a short post-season series where there isn't time to take the long approach.

If it turns out that the keel is now permanently stuck in a depressed mode, it seems to me that you have to look at a change.

I'm curious about the question the way it was originally posed -- what does a manager do outside of games?

Originally Posted by OrangeDisk

I'm curious about the question the way it was originally posed -- what does a manager do outside of games?

Ummm...hosts a radio show? Does potato chip commercials? Hawks cherry juice?

Originally Posted by OrangeDisk

I'm curious about the question the way it was originally posed -- what does a manager do outside of games?

I would hope that he talks with the players individually and helps them focus on improving. But that may just be a fantasy.

In my fantasy, Gardenhire would take Pavano aside and ask him to be a mentor to a young pitcher who is struggling, such as Hendriks was before he was sent down.

Originally Posted by glunn

I would hope that he talks with the players individually and helps them focus on improving. But that may just be a fantasy.

In my fantasy, Gardenhire would take Pavano aside and ask him to be a mentor to a young pitcher who is struggling, such as Hendriks was before he was sent down.

Apparently Pavano was mentoring Hendriks before he got sent down, who else would have taught him it's a good idea to throw gopher balls over the plate to major league hitters. That's not a fantasy, it's a nightmare.

Will Gardy make it to Memorial day?

I'm don't usually think firing Gardy is a good idea. I did vote yes today though, but I struggled to do it.

I think that Gardy will make it through the season and he will (or be asked to) resign, but it will be mostly mutual. It may not be the best thing, but it will be a PR move to show that the ownership is at least trying to give the fans a quality product (if you believe that is genuine or not is up to you). This is just what I'm expecting to happen if the season continues like this.

Should the Twins 'move on' with Gardenhire?

I don't know what this means. Does it mean "Should the Twins go forward with Gardenhire?" Or does it mean should the Twins "move on" to another manager other than Gardenhire?

My answer is that the Twins should not fire Gardenhire.

There is virtually no chance Gardy gets fired this year. The injuries, lack of depth in the system, and bad direction from upstairs has more to do with our current situation then what Gardy is doing right now.

In a more global discussion, if we continue to see massive underperformances like we are seeing now, with no steps in the right direction, there would probably more internal support for this move next year.

Those of you that think the manager has no impact on the team and doesn't do anything besides filling out a lineup card must never have played sports at any level or coached. I played as kid and coached youth sports for about 10 years while my daughter was growing up. The manager/coaches have a huge impact on the team and players, from teaching them how to play right, to discussing when to implement strategy to making sure they are trying their best and playing within the concept of the team, to even finding out what buttons to push to get players to perform better. You can say that once a guy makes it to the major leagues that he has learned all of this, but I would reply by asking if you've watched any of the games this year? I'm convinced that all of this falls under the direction of the manager, and is his responsibility. What he doesn't have total control over, and appears to be the Twins biggest issue is the lack of talent. However, let's not forget that he does have input in personel decisions and that he seems to have a tendency to like and play "gritty guys" over talented guys. Will firing Gardenhire and replacing him with a HOF manager put this team in the World Series? Doubtful. However, if they continue to lose 2 out of 3 games than I think it's time for a new voice and new direction, if for no other reason that what we are doing isn't working and how could it get any worse?

Originally Posted by whydidnt

Those of you that think the manager has no impact on the team and doesn't do anything besides filling out a lineup card must never have played sports at any level or coached. I played as kid and coached youth sports for about 10 years while my daughter was growing up. The manager/coaches have a huge impact on the team and players, from teaching them how to play right, to discussing when to implement strategy to making sure they are trying their best and playing within the concept of the team, to even finding out what buttons to push to get players to perform better. You can say that once a guy makes it to the major leagues that he has learned all of this, but I would reply by asking if you've watched any of the games this year? I'm convinced that all of this falls under the direction of the manager, and is his responsibility. What he doesn't have total control over, and appears to be the Twins biggest issue is the lack of talent. However, let's not forget that he does have input in personel decisions and that he seems to have a tendency to like and play "gritty guys" over talented guys. Will firing Gardenhire and replacing him with a HOF manager put this team in the World Series? Doubtful. However, if they continue to lose 2 out of 3 games than I think it's time for a new voice and new direction, if for no other reason that what we are doing isn't working and how could it get any worse?

I was on the fence, but this post and others have convinced me that the time has come for Gardenhire to move on.

Originally Posted by Nick Nelson

No one really knows, therefore this discussion is - at best - uninformed. How much impact does a manager truly have? In most cases I think it's very little.

One name instantly refutes that, Kirk Gibson. Veteran bloggers willing to post their own names who make statements like this boggles my mind and causes me to wonder if they have ever played organized team sports at any significant level. Those who are uninformed on this topic aren't working hard enough or paying close enough attention.

Originally Posted by jokin

One name instantly refutes that, Kirk Gibson. Veteran bloggers willing to post their own names who make statements like this boggles my mind and causes me to wonder if they have ever played organized team sports at any significant level. Those who are uninformed on this topic aren't working hard enough or paying close enough attention.

Seriously? Some subtlety is required. Talking about coaches from the ages of 5-18 is one thing . . . of course they have a significant impact. The question is not about them, however. While I think the impact of a MLB manager is greater than Nick may indicate here, it is NOT like those coaches when one was a kid.

Originally Posted by whydidnt

Those of you that think the manager has no impact on the team and doesn't do anything besides filling out a lineup card must never have played sports at any level or coached. I played as kid and coached youth sports for about 10 years while my daughter was growing up.

In that case, I yield to your obviously vast level of expertise when it comes to major-league managers and their impact.

These are adult, millionaire athletes we're talking about. The notion that they need managers to teach them how to play and make sure they try their best is silly. By the time they've reached the majors their fundamentals (or lack thereof) are ingrained.

Originally Posted by whydidnt

You can say that once a guy makes it to the major leagues that he has learned all of this, but I would reply by asking if you've watched any of the games this year?

Yes, I've watched most of the games. I also watched most of the games from 2002-2010 when the Twins (under Gardy) were renowned as one of the most fundamentally sound teams in the game. I'd venture to say that the issues now are more related to personnel than the manager randomly forgetting how to coach.

Originally Posted by jokin

One name instantly refutes that, Kirk Gibson. Veteran bloggers willing to post their own names who make statements like this boggles my mind and causes me to wonder if they have ever played organized team sports at any significant level. Those who are uninformed on this topic aren't working hard enough or paying close enough attention.

Gibson's overall record as D-Backs skipper is 142-135. What does that prove or refute, exactly? Is your argument that he's chiefly responsible for the massive improvement of Arizona's pitching staff from 2010 to 2011? Did his very presence make pitchers pitch better, or did he as a former hitter have some special insight that he shared with them to drop their ERA by a full run? Explain.