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Heyman: The Twins made a 3-year offer to Ervin Santana

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#1 Thrylos

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 02:53 PM

Story here

Sounds like this happened the last couple days, but looks like unless he gets what he wants, he would prefer a one-year deal with either the Orioles or the Jays.

Whole 3 year offer. And I am not sure what message this gives to guys like Kyle Gibson and Alex Meyer and Trevor May et. al...
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#2 Brandon

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 03:24 PM

I think the message is goodbye to Corriea not to the young pitchers and we will also have another pitcher who we can trade later. And I think the offer is probably closer to 3 / 33-36 so that will not hurt the budget if he bites.

#3 darin617

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 03:57 PM

why would the Twins make Santana a 3yr offer? not sure I would do it unless they would sign either Drew or Morales. not worth giving up a 2nd round pick unless the offense also improves.

#4 Kwak

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:09 PM

Maybe it's something to do with being "on a good-hitting club"? Or, is it "make him an offer he can refuse"?

#5 Jim Labruno

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:17 PM

Well Meyer and Buxton were sent down today. And dont worry Santana is greedy and will turn it down

#6 EephusKnuckler

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:20 PM

Would be very surprising if he took the deal. Isn't this what a lot of people expected from TR, though? Wait until the demands of guys like Jimenez and Santana dropped, then make a reasonable offer. Maybe Ryan thought it was a good time to pounce, considering that Ervin just fired his agent a few days ago.

#7 JB_Iowa

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 04:28 PM

This makes me think that there may be more pressure on the Twins organization to win this year (improve significantly) than I may have thought originally. But since the details of the Twins' offer don't appear to be available, it's kind of hard to judge.

Given the mess the Santana team made of this off-season, I see him trying to salvage with a one-year deal -- taking a chance on himself.

#8 YourHouseIsMyHouse

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:08 PM

In 2 years you have a rotation that could look like this
1. Meyer
2. Santana
3. Nolasco
4. Berrios
5. Hughes/May

#9 jokin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:19 PM

This makes me think that there may be more pressure on the Twins organization to win this year (improve significantly) than I may have thought originally. But since the details of the Twins' offer don't appear to be available, it's kind of hard to judge.

Given the mess the Santana team made of this off-season, I see him trying to salvage with a one-year deal -- taking a chance on himself.


Interesting to note that Santana is also reportedly holding out for a 4-year deal instead of 3. This would extend him out to age 34 at the end of the contract. Certainly, if the Twins are serious here, there's room for negotiating around that 4th year. And if the deal were done, it sure makes a lot of sense to move Corriea now and take a shot at signing both Drew and Morales. The season expectations for both this year and next, would turn around on a dime.

#10 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:19 PM

In 2 years you have a rotation that could look like this
1. Meyer
2. Santana
3. Nolasco
4. Berrios
5. Hughes/May


Or this:

1. Nolasco
2. Hughes
3. Pelfrey
4. Correia
5. Santana

#11 glunn

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:22 PM

It seems to me that we should be pleased that the Twins made this effort. It sounds like they are still trying to upgrade for this year, and willing to spend some money to do this.

#12 jokin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:23 PM

Or this:

1. Nolasco
2. Hughes
3. Pelfrey
4. Correia
5. Santana


You mean for this year?

You really don't think that Correia or Pelfrey will be here on April 1, 2016, do you?

#13 jokin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

It seems to me that we should be pleased that the Twins made this effort. It sounds like they are still trying to upgrade for this year, and willing to spend some money to do this.


If this is a serious offer, I'm very pleased. It does beg a few questions:

Can a deal of this magnitude be pulled off without TR at 100%?

Would they immediately trade Correia and (at least) some of the out-of-options guys?

Would they then go all-in and get Drew and/or Morales?

And speaking of all-in, would this precipitate they stop messing around and install Hicks, Arcia, Gibson and Pinto on the 25-man roster in April?

#14 biggentleben

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:32 PM

I hope that he's looking for a one-year deal, and I really hope (after Medlen's injury today) that he is excited about a one-year deal for an NL team to build his value back up.
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#15 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:45 PM

You mean for this year?

You really don't think that Correia or Pelfrey will be here on April 1, 2016, do you?


Not April 1, 2016, but maybe September 30, 2015.

I'm just having a little trouble figuring out what our plan is. I'd sign a hitter, if anything. Even Drew.

Three years -- if this report has truth -- three years to another free agent pitcher right now literally leaves zero open rotation spots for guys to compete for, and one spot to compete for next year.

#16 cmathewson

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:47 PM

In 2 years you have a rotation that could look like this
1. Meyer
2. Santana
3. Nolasco
4. Berrios
5. Hughes/May


Not sure Berrios will be ready by then. But it is intriguing.
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#17 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:48 PM

It seems to me that we should be pleased that the Twins made this effort. It sounds like they are still trying to upgrade for this year, and willing to spend some money to do this.


You are right. I think the bottom line is that they still want to improve.

#18 TheLeviathan

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:54 PM

I'm no Drew fan, but if you're going to hand out a contract like this and give up a pick....then I'd be willing to sign on for him. I don't think adding more pitching right now helps this team.

It's also a lot of guaranteed roster spots being given for the next few years when there are (hopefully) pitching prospects on the way. You can't always plan on trading these guys either because injuries/poor performances/lack of need can squeeze the market and you're stuck with the money and the guy when you have better alternatives.

I'm kind of glad this wasn't a good fit.

#19 jokin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 05:55 PM

Not April 1, 2016, but maybe September 30, 2015.

I'm just having a little trouble figuring out what our plan is. I'd sign a hitter, if anything. Even Drew.

Three years -- if this report has truth -- three years to another free agent pitcher right now literally leaves zero open rotation spots for guys to compete for, and one spot to compete for next year.


Ideally, the need for another FA SP will diminish greatly if Meyer and Gibson can deliver as promised. A rotation with those 2 plus Santana, Nolasco and Hughes at some point next year, with Correia traded this year and Pelfrey moved in ST 2015.... or shortly thereafter.....looks, potentially, like a very significant upgrade to the last 3+ years. It's hard to imagine that Correia will be around longer than until July of this year.

#20 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:16 PM

Ideally, the need for another FA SP will diminish greatly if Meyer and Gibson can deliver as promised. A rotation with those 2 plus Santana, Nolasco and Hughes at some point next year, with Correia traded this year and Pelfrey moved in ST 2015.... or shortly thereafter.....looks, potentially, like a very significant upgrade to the last 3+ years. It's hard to imagine that Correia will be around longer than until July of this year.


But I'm happy with the rotation as it stands now!1

1. With the caveat that either Correia or Pelfrey does pitch well to start the season, and that one of Gibson, Worley, or Diamond does actually earn the final spot. (Deduno and Swarzak being apparently headed for the pen regardless of their performance.)

#21 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:24 PM

If you can get Santana for 3 years and 1 year vesting option, you do it. Then you trade KC for whatever someone will give us. Then you sign Morales and give up your 2nd and 3rd round picks. You just let the slow outfield play as much as you have to.

Nolasco
Santana
Hughes
Pelfrey
Deduno

Worley
Swarzak
Burton
Duensing
Fien
Perkins
Diamond



2B Dozier
1B Mauer
LF Willingham
DH Morales
RF Arcia
3B Plouffe
C Suzuki
CF Presley(hicks i wish)
SS Florimon

C Fryer
UTL Escobar
OF Mastroianni
IF/OF Parmelee

This team could maybe win 75+ games.

#22 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:25 PM

Ideally, I wish they would add Drew on a 2 year deal as well. Push Florimon to UTL role.

#23 kab21

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:43 PM

Story here

Sounds like this happened the last couple days, but looks like unless he gets what he wants, he would prefer a one-year deal with either the Orioles or the Jays.

Whole 3 year offer. And I am not sure what message this gives to guys like Kyle Gibson and Alex Meyer and Trevor May et. al...


It should send them a message that this team isn't waiting for the nextnext year or the nextnextnext year to start winning. I would consider Santana to be the Twins best starter with Nolasco close behind. He's the kind of guy you add to the rotation - Pelfrey not so much. And despite everyone's concern that a good pitching prospect is being blocked that is not the case. It's extremely unlikely that the Twins make it through the season w/o an injury or two.

In addition to that it should send a message to Gibson and May that they need to pitch better to get called up and even then they might have to wait their turn. Meyer isn't going to see significant time (>100 innings) with the Twins this year anyway after last season's injury.

The unfortunate odd man out would be Deduno imo. many didn't expect him to be ready this spring but he's back pitching and doing well. At this point it looks like the 5th spot is his while worley and Diamond (still has a chance) compete for a bullpen spot or pack their bags. This is precisely why the Pelfrey move was so questionable at the time. It wasn't about the money but rather that it tied up another rotation spot with a no potential arm. Coincidentally Pelfrey makes about the same amount as Santana's 4th year.

#24 jokin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:45 PM

But I'm happy with the rotation as it stands now!1

1. With the caveat that either Correia or Pelfrey does pitch well to start the season, and that one of Gibson, Worley, or Diamond does actually earn the final spot. (Deduno and Swarzak being apparently headed for the pen regardless of their performance.)


That's a big caveat, and you can't have an either/or with Pelf and Correia, you're stuck with both. If the team is going to be a contender sooner rather than later, it will be Gibson, and to a sightly lesser extent, Worley, getting big innings this year and seeing if they can establish their full potential going forward. But why not make all of these what-ifs? a lot easier to speculate on by having an established Ace on the staff for the next 3-4 years and move on from Correia (who will be gone no later than the end of the year anyways).

#25 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 06:55 PM

I'm no Drew fan, but if you're going to hand out a contract like this and give up a pick....then I'd be willing to sign on for him. I don't think adding more pitching right now helps this team.

It's also a lot of guaranteed roster spots being given for the next few years when there are (hopefully) pitching prospects on the way. You can't always plan on trading these guys either because injuries/poor performances/lack of need can squeeze the market and you're stuck with the money and the guy when you have better alternatives.

I'm kind of glad this wasn't a good fit.


I can't see any downside to signing one of the top free agent starting pitchers. Ryan traded Butera and Doumit, so I can't imagine trading an excess of starting pitching will be all that difficult, and we certainly have all kinds of money available now and for the foreseeable future.

#26 jokin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:02 PM

I can't see any downside to signing one of the top free agent starting pitchers. Ryan traded Butera and Doumit, so I can't imagine trading an excess of starting pitching will be all that difficult, and we certainly have all kinds of money available now and for the foreseeable future.


Agreed, in toto. (What color is the moon tonight?:cry:)

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Edited by jokin, 09 March 2014 - 07:05 PM.


#27 Hosken Bombo Disco

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:04 PM

In 2 years you have a rotation that could look like this
1. Meyer
2. Santana
3. Nolasco
4. Berrios
5. Hughes/May


and for the record, I love this rotation too.. especially if Gibson is in there..

#28 TheLeviathan

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:09 PM

I can't see any downside to signing one of the top free agent starting pitchers. Ryan traded Butera and Doumit, so I can't imagine trading an excess of starting pitching will be all that difficult, and we certainly have all kinds of money available now and for the foreseeable future.


I don't know why I even try. But I'll try one more time:

Nick Blackburn sat in AA for two seasons making a lot of money. Other guys have this happen throughout their careers as well. There are many factors that make guys untradeable (Santana himself went dirtcheap to the Royals because of production issues).

Had this been the move a month or two ago, without Pelfrey, I think it's easier to get behind. He's a good pitcher and a good target, but at this point the Twins are starting to create roster issues now and going forward out of desperation. There are a finite number of spots on your 40 and your 25 you can devote to pitchers. At some point enough is enough.

#29 jokin

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:24 PM

and for the record, I love this rotation too.. especially if Gibson is in there..


In 2016, in my scenario, Meyer will already have replaced Pelfrey in 2015, and Gibson would hopefully already be established in the #4 spot before the end of this season, with Berrios ready to replace Hughes at the deadline in his contract expiration year, with May, Gilmartin and Darnell as starting depth. I see a lot of light at the end of this tunnel.

#30 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 09 March 2014 - 07:28 PM

I don't know why I even try. But I'll try one more time:

Nick Blackburn sat in AA for two seasons making a lot of money. Other guys have this happen throughout their careers as well. There are many factors that make guys untradeable (Santana himself went dirtcheap to the Royals because of production issues).

Had this been the move a month or two ago, without Pelfrey, I think it's easier to get behind. He's a good pitcher and a good target, but at this point the Twins are starting to create roster issues now and going forward out of desperation. There are a finite number of spots on your 40 and your 25 you can devote to pitchers. At some point enough is enough.


Terry Ryan is cool, calm, and calculated. It certainly is not desperation trying to pick up one of the top free agent starting pitchers. I think most of us can find several spots on the 25 and 40 man roster that Santana would fill nicely, and I have never once felt it necessary to caution Terry Ryan about spending money. I guess I don't understand this sudden about face concerning spending in the free agent market. There is no more risk today than there was five months ago.

Edited by howieramone, 09 March 2014 - 08:06 PM.