Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Photo

Article: Kubel, Doumit and Designating a DH

  • Please log in to reply
22 replies to this topic

#1 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 1,981 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 12:15 AM

You can view the page at http://www.twinsdail...esignating-a-DH

#2 tjsyam921

tjsyam921

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 129 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:42 AM

I read somewhere when the deal was signed that Kubel was confident he would make the roster. I think the Twins had something worked out with him to sign a minor league deal keeping him off the 40 man roster to give them time to make moves. Kubel should also be a better corner outfielder than Doumit. Rotating Willingham, Kubel, and Arcia between the corners and DH spots.

#3 Brandon

Brandon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 756 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:44 AM

I know draft picks are valuable especially the first round draft picks but if you can get a serious upgrade for your team and you have the money to do it we should. If we signed Cruz and Drew we would probably be contenders next year if not in 2015 when the last 2 offensive holes get filled by Buxton and Sano.

#4 beckmt

beckmt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 809 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 08:51 AM

Kubel expects to make this team, but do not think that is a sure thing. If he makes the team Parmelee is gone. You need to give at bats to Arcia and hopefully Willingham at DH. Anyother plan makes no sense.

#5 Monkeypaws

Monkeypaws

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 613 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 09:28 AM

I always thought Kubel was at least an average fielder as well; better than Doumit in the OF at least, and Willingham as well.

#6 Highabove

Highabove

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 586 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:17 AM

Money should be the least of the Twins concern. At the moment, the Twins are at least 20 million under their 50% of revenue. In the last 20 years, only five 2nd round picks have made it to opening day rosters. Slowey, Swarzak, Baker, Crain, Jones
Are these good enough reasons to block improvements to the Twins lineup?

Edited by Highabove, 23 December 2013 - 10:46 AM.


#7 ND-Fan

ND-Fan

    Member

  • Members
  • 64 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:58 AM

I think Kubel's numbers are going to go up returning to American league in the designated hitter roll. With Kubel national league to get his at bats he had to play everyday and with poor knee I believe it took a toll on his batting. He can play outfield but is below average although much better than Doumit can play outfield. He's one of few left hand bats that has hit for power in Target field. I think this is much up grade for Twins and it appears he's left Ryan time to adjust his 40 man roster before spring training.

#8 ltwedt

ltwedt

    Member

  • Members
  • 83 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 10:59 AM

Twins next move should be to move Willingham; then make the decision that your DH is going to be Colobello/Kubel. That being done - task #2 should be to sign Cruz - now you have room for him in the everyday lineup. Outfield would be Arcia-Hicks-Cruz. Now you can dump Mastro and Parms - keep Kepler and Pressley. Bat Hicks 7th, - Nice power potential in the outfield.

#9 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 1,981 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:24 AM

Unless they're sold on the likes of Darin Mastroianni, Alex Presley, Eduardo Escobar and Danny Santana as players who can hold their own in somewhat prominent roles, the Twins should be scouring for backups and utility types who can offer some offensive value.

Just as an addendum, to that end, it sounds like the Twins have some interest in Justin Turner, who would fit the bill pretty nicely.

#10 twinsfan34

twinsfan34

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 630 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:37 AM

I like the Kubel signing and the moving of Doumit. If Kubel hits, great, if not. I'm still happy with the risk/reward and the moving of Doumit. The Twins are trying to move Colabello too, which is more for the roster spot/playing time rather than his cost (x<$590k) to the team.



Cruz and Drew are not good investments of WAR to value to players we already have. $13-$14M per season for 1 more WIN at SS (Drew 3.1, Florimon 2.1) and Cruz is one more suspension away from being suspended for an entire season. He's also only played more than 128 games once in 8 seasons. He's also a defensive liability in the OF, even cost the Rangers a World Series.

Cruz
2009 - 128g 33HR 2.6 Def (Fangraphs) 3.0 WAR
2010 - 108g 22HR 5.3 Def 4.9 WAR
2011 - 124g 29HR -12.2 Def 1.3 WAR
2012 - 159g 24HR -11.2 Def 1.1 WAR
2013 - 109g 27HR - 9.7 Def 1.5 WAR

Honestly, if Josh Willingham is healthy, he's going to give you about equal production at half ($7M) the cost, without any sort of commitment beyond 2014.

Willingham
2008 - 102g 15HR 3.4 Def (Fangraphs) 2.7 WAR
2009 - 133g 24HR -10.2 Def (Fangraphs) 2.4 WAR
2010 - 114g 16HR - 7.1 Def 2.6 WAR
2011 - 136g 29HR -12.8 Def 1.8 WAR
2012 - 145g 33HR -17.0 Def 3.6 WAR
2013 - 111g 14HR -13.2 Def 0.0 WAR


Next Summer's SS Free Agent Class includes:
Asdrubal Cabrera (29)
J.J. Hardy (32)
Jed Lowrie (31)
Hanley Ramirez (31)

I'd rather pay any of them the $10-14M per year that it would take have Drew under contract at least through 2014. Drew isn't a moron though, he'll look for a 3 year deal, as no telling if he'll be able to complete it with his injury history.

I'd have no problem paying any of those 4 guys $14M per season, in 2015, when Buxton, Sano, Arcia, and Rosario are ready to contribute to a competitive team.

The depth all across the board is better, from 3B to OF to SS to starting pitching.

http://bleacherrepor...ree-agent-class

Don't get into bad contracts that will hurt signing Free Agents in 2015, when the Twins will actually be looking to be competitive.

#11 Rosterman

Rosterman

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 981 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:38 AM

Yes, the Twins could use a utility guy like Turner who can play all four infield positions if push comes to shove thus making Parmalee useless. And you would probably still keep two of the Bartlett/Escobar/Florimon team.

#12 johnnydakota

johnnydakota

    Banned

  • Banned
  • 1,498 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:48 AM

Unless they're sold on the likes of Darin Mastroianni, Alex Presley, Eduardo Escobar and Danny Santana as players who can hold their own in somewhat prominent roles, the Twins should be scouring for backups and utility types who can offer some offensive value.

Just as an addendum, to that end, it sounds like the Twins have some interest in Justin Turner, who would fit the bill pretty nicely.


While Turner has a positive career War .09 he carries a neg.-1.7 in D-WAR, but this late in the game maybe the best bet for adding to the team

#13 SpiritofVodkaDave

SpiritofVodkaDave

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,012 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 11:58 AM

Unless they're sold on the likes of Darin Mastroianni, Alex Presley, Eduardo Escobar and Danny Santana as players who can hold their own in somewhat prominent roles, the Twins should be scouring for backups and utility types who can offer some offensive value.

Just as an addendum, to that end, it sounds like the Twins have some interest in Justin Turner, who would fit the bill pretty nicely.


Of that list the only one I want on the roster at this point is Pressly, who I think is perfectly fine as a 4th OF.

Turner would be a nice get, I would also try to get DeRosa out of retirement to provide UTIL and a bench bat.

#14 stringer bell

stringer bell

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 3,633 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 01:36 PM

Of that list the only one I want on the roster at this point is Pressly, who I think is perfectly fine as a 4th OF.

Turner would be a nice get, I would also try to get DeRosa out of retirement to provide UTIL and a bench bat.

Shocking.

#15 Jeremy Nygaard

Jeremy Nygaard

    Twins Database Manager

  • Twins Database Managers
  • 2,071 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:17 PM

Kubel qualifies as an Article XX(B) signing (a major league FA signing a minor league deal).

If Kubel fails to make the major league roster out of spring training and accepts a Rochester assignment, he'll automatically be given a $100K "retention bonus" and be eligible for a 6/1 opt-out.

#16 Nick Nelson

Nick Nelson

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 1,981 posts

Posted 23 December 2013 - 03:58 PM

Thanks Jeremy. Good info.

#17 Jim H

Jim H

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 439 posts

Posted 28 December 2013 - 10:42 AM

Nick suggests the Twins have a sensible plan in place to start the season. I am not sure that the "plan" is in place, yet. They seem to be still looking around for some more help, if the interest in Davis was genuine. In any case, I am not sure what the plan is for Kubel. Is he to be the primary DH? Perhaps a platoon OF, or some complicated arrangement involving both corner positions and DH? Or maybe he is more of a hedge against the likiehood that both Arcia and Hicks may not be ready for the majors to start the season?

Personally, I can't imagine that at this point of his career, Kubel would block full time playing time for Arcia or Hicks either for that matter, when the Twins decide they are ready for that. So I expect that there should be a move or two before ST starts and quite likely another move or so to begin the season, if the Twins decide to roll the dice and play both Arcia and Hicks full time right out of ST.

The situation is complicated by the status of Plouffe, who is likely an outfielder when Sano arrives, if Plouffe shows he can hit enough to warrant a corner spot. I am not sure the Twins are quite ready to give up on Parmelee yet, either. He is clearly direct competition for whatever role Kubel might get.

I appreciate the fact that the Twins don't want to be caught short in the outfield, and end playing the likes of Clete Thomas or the Rene Tosoni's of the AAAA world for extended periods. But, at this point I don't see a clear plan.

#18 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 4,457 posts

Posted 28 December 2013 - 12:02 PM

Honestly, I have to think the next stage is executing some trades. The roster is crowed right now, and other than a short stop, there really isn't a glaring position of need that won't be upgraded from the farm in the near future.

#19 Willihammer

Willihammer

    ice cream correspondent

  • Members
  • 2,808 posts
  • LocationSaint Paul

Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:16 AM

Kubel's injury history is not encouraging.

Kubel was OPSing .928 through July 2012. On July 13, he pulled his (left) hamstring on against the Cubs, left the game. He OPSed .624 in August, Sept and October.

In spring 2013 his left knee - the one he tore up in 2004, was bothering him again. He had it drained twice. And in compensating for the knee, he strained his left quad.

http://arizona.sbnat...antasy-baseball

“I think what really might have (hurt) was that I got into a lot of bad habits in the spring because of my knee,” Kubel said, “so I was swinging different. And then in the last month or so I’ve been working on it pretty hard and finally got back to using the legs, and I think that kind of flared it up again.”


I still like Kubel's ability to produce when healthy, he's only 31. But realistically, any production out of him next year should be considered a bonus. He had all winter 2012-2013 to heal and still came into ST and his knee was bothering him. Its been and will continue to be a chronic problem. Jason Kubel is "injury prone."

Edited by Willihammer, 09 January 2014 - 09:19 AM.


#20 mike wants wins

mike wants wins

    Would Like to be More Positive

  • Members
  • 5,771 posts

Posted 09 January 2014 - 09:33 AM

Willingham as DH is better, with a real OF in the field, given the pitching staff. I don't get how that isn't clearly the plan.....As for money.....the obsession with "bad" vs "good" contracts continues to baffle me.....as long as they have tens of millions sitting around, there is no bad contract other than 1 that incents them to block a good young player (like, you know, Pelfrey....).

#21 Brock Beauchamp

Brock Beauchamp

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 8,432 posts

Posted 09 January 2014 - 10:53 AM

there is no bad contract other than 1 that incents them to block a good young player (like, you know, Pelfrey....).


I understand not being a fan of the Pelfrey contract but Pelfrey is blocking no one. There is still one rotation spot up for grabs and sooner rather than later, a second will open up from injury.

#22 nicksaviking

nicksaviking

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 3,628 posts

Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:07 AM

Kubel did seem pretty confident he will make the roster, but I wouldn't count on it unless there actually was some kind of secret handshake.

The deal he signed just gave the Twins 2 million reasons to send him to Rochester for the first couple weeks of the season.

#23 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 42 posts

Posted 09 January 2014 - 11:11 AM

Of that list the only one I want on the roster at this point is Pressly, who I think is perfectly fine as a 4th OF.


Disagree. Pressly may have had experience in the outfield as a high schooler, but he has concentrated on pitching for too long by now.

Turner would be a nice get, I would also try to get DeRosa out of retirement to provide UTIL and a bench bat.


We probably need another team to convince DeRosa to come back. Then we can trade Duensing for him.