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#1 edavis0308

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:23 AM

To Arroyo, Garza, Nolasco, or Hughes per Doogie Wolfson (posted on MLBTR).

http://www.mlbtrader...son-arroyo.html

It's ok. I'm sure none will sign elsewhere before we would even be able to get an offer in.

Edited by edavis0308, 26 November 2013 - 08:44 AM.


#2 Thrylos

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:41 AM

Per Doogie Wolfson, not MLBTR. They just reiterated what Doogie reported.
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#3 edavis0308

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 08:44 AM

Per Doogie Wolfson, not MLBTR. They just reiterated what Doogie reported.


Oops, good call.

#4 gunnarthor

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:21 AM

To Arroyo, Garza, Nolasco, or Hughes per Doogie Wolfson (posted on MLBTR).

http://www.mlbtrader...son-arroyo.html

It's ok. I'm sure none will sign elsewhere before we would even be able to get an offer in.


All three of those guys (and probably Hughes) will be wanting multiple year deals. It's very likely that their agents have asked teams not to submit offers yet while they are trying to drum up interest with other orgs. I'm sure their agents will let all teams try and push up their value before they sign somewhere.

#5 howieramone1406390264

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:28 AM

All three of those guys (and probably Hughes) will be wanting multiple year deals. It's very likely that their agents have asked teams not to submit offers yet while they are trying to drum up interest with other orgs. I'm sure their agents will let all teams try and push up their value before they sign somewhere.


I agree. I'm guessing they are waiting to see how Tanaka plays out.

Edited by howieramone, 26 November 2013 - 10:47 AM.


#6 jharaldson

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 09:41 AM

All three of those guys (and probably Hughes) will be wanting multiple year deals. It's very likely that their agents have asked teams not to submit offers yet while they are trying to drum up interest with other orgs. I'm sure their agents will let all teams try and push up their value before they sign somewhere.


Nolasco's agent has already stated his client has multiple 4 year offers so if he is trying to suppress offers he is not doing a good job.

http://sports.yahoo....-205513603.html

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

Agents ask teams not to put offers on the table?

#8 Winston Smith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:34 AM

My guess is that very few contract offers not made are accepted.
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#9 twinscowboysbulls

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 10:38 AM

My biggest question is, who says these guys are going to tell the Twins when they actually have offers? What is stopping these guys from signing before the Twins even get a chance to put an offer out? There are multiple teams that are going to bid just as much money as the Twins are for their services. Am I wrong?

Twins should be making some offers. If for no other reason, to let them know the Twins mean business. If we are worried about players not wanting to come here because we stink, sign a guy! If we sign Garza, i'm pretty sure that might help sway Salty or Arroyo our way more than before.

#10 gunnarthor

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:04 AM

My biggest question is, who says these guys are going to tell the Twins when they actually have offers? What is stopping these guys from signing before the Twins even get a chance to put an offer out? There are multiple teams that are going to bid just as much money as the Twins are for their services. Am I wrong?

Twins should be making some offers. If for no other reason, to let them know the Twins mean business. If we are worried about players not wanting to come here because we stink, sign a guy! If we sign Garza, i'm pretty sure that might help sway Salty or Arroyo our way more than before.


To your first part, I'm not sure. In the Sano signing stories, as reported in the Pitt papers, it was revealed that the agent told teams not to submit offers until he (the agent) was ready, but Pitt sent him their 2m + deal anyway. The agent was trying to get as many teams interested before the offers came in. Eventually, he told the Twins to make an offer and they did, although under an agreement that the agent wouldn't tell other teams how much the Twins offered, just that they had. Pitt (according to the agent) refused to believe their offer still wasn't the best, thought the agent was making them bid against themselves, so the Twins got him. So I would assume that part of the free agency period involves the agent talking with many teams to gauge levels of interest, teams doing medicals, scouting etc, and then feeling out offers. I very much doubt that a team says "3/30m" right away. I would imagine that Arroyo's agent will eventually ask the Twins to make an offer and might even tell them that their offer is low, and ask if they'd make a higher one.

#11 diehardtwinsfan

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:13 AM

To Arroyo, Garza, Nolasco, or Hughes per Doogie Wolfson (posted on MLBTR).

http://www.mlbtrader...son-arroyo.html

It's ok. I'm sure none will sign elsewhere before we would even be able to get an offer in.


If their agents are worth anything, you can guarantee that they will call Minnesota and ask if they are willing to up whatever offer is on the table before a pitcher signs.

#12 TheLeviathan

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:38 AM

All three of those guys (and probably Hughes) will be wanting multiple year deals. It's very likely that their agents have asked teams not to submit offers yet while they are trying to drum up interest with other orgs. I'm sure their agents will let all teams try and push up their value before they sign somewhere.


Why would less offers drum up interest? The best way to push up value is to create competition among offers, not suppress them.

Im not worried that we haven't offered anything yet, but c'mon, lets not contort common sense.

#13 spycake

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:42 AM

All three of those guys (and probably Hughes) will be wanting multiple year deals. It's very likely that their agents have asked teams not to submit offers yet while they are trying to drum up interest with other orgs. I'm sure their agents will let all teams try and push up their value before they sign somewhere.

Hughes wants a multi-year deal? I thought the conventional wisdom was the opposite.

Also, what purpose would it serve to tell teams not to submit offers? The offer is private between the player/agent and team. The player can just sit on the offer if they want, or if the team says "we want to sign you today" the player can respond "we're not signing before X date." But how does not submitting an offer help "drum up interest"?

Your Sano example doesn't really clarify this. And I'm pretty sure MLB free agent negotiations are a well-oiled machine compared to amateur free agent negotiations in Latin America.

#14 PseudoSABR

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:44 AM

I wonder if the Twins are waiting to see what happens with Tanaka before making any offers...well, one can dream.

#15 nicksaviking

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:44 AM

Agents ask teams not to put offers on the table?


Yes, just like their elbows. It's quite rude and embarasses the agents in front of their dinner guests.

#16 edavis0308

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:44 AM

I don't want to read too much into something like this, but I know my initial reaction was something along the lines of thinking "here we go again". We have seen some pitchers go off the board already, the pitchers we have interest in we aparently haven't offered to any, but yet we are being aggressive for pitching this offseason? I guess we have Kris Johnson so far. It is early but when you look at things so far, I just find it starting to be quite a bit deflating...until we sign a decent guy or at least are reported to have money on the table to SOMEONE (though no news is good news if it is going to involve Arroyo and three years).

#17 johnnydakota

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:45 AM

Or could it just be that ole familar Curly shuffle?
wait to long then have to sign whats left.
After all the big clubs pick and choose
Or run out and sign another KC (yes he did better then most expected)
Me thinks that is what most fans are worried about.

#18 nicksaviking

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:48 AM

I wonder if the Twins are waiting to see what happens with Tanaka before making any offers...well, one can dream.


If so, I hope their dreams don't get in the way of reality. For the first time in about two decades, genuinely attainable free agent upgrades currently seem to be sitting right in front of the Twins.

#19 spycake

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:50 AM

If their agents are worth anything, you can guarantee that they will call Minnesota and ask if they are willing to up whatever offer is on the table before a pitcher signs.


Actually, I suspect that making teams bid blind is the best overall strategy for players/agents.

If agents regularly did as you suggested, teams would hesitate to make their best offer right away, as they'd always have the chance to simply top the other guy by $1 (or $1 million) later.

I am sure there are special circumstances, generally when a player strongly prefers a particular organization and wants to give them a "last chance" so to speak. Even then, I am guessing the specific offers are kept mostly secret, maybe just a simple "your original offer was low, but you can bid again if you want, or here is our counter-offer."

#20 nicksaviking

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 11:52 AM

It doesn't make much sense that agents would tell teams not to submit offers, but perhaps the Twins haven't done so because Garza is their top target and Garza intends on waiting for Tanaka, who he and his agent may view as his biggest comparable. If that's the case, there's likely not much use putting an offer in front of Garza if he's not going to bother looking at it.

Of course waiting for Garza who may be waiting for Tanaka could cause the Twins to lose out on other pitchers.

#21 jay

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:04 PM

Any of us pretending to know what the negotiation process consists of is a joke.

Isn't this the exact same as the 'Twins Aren't Doing Stuff' thread?

#22 Brock Beauchamp

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:09 PM

I will never understand the gnashing of teeth that occurs before the Winter Meetings even get going.

If nothing happens by December 15th, then it's time to start complaining.

#23 JB_Iowa

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:16 PM

I will never understand the gnashing of teeth that occurs before the Winter Meetings even get going.

If nothing happens by December 15th, then it's time to start complaining.


LOL, gonna mark my calendar.

#24 Winston Smith

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:37 PM

I will never understand the gnashing of teeth that occurs before the Winter Meetings even get going.

If nothing happens by December 15th, then it's time to start complaining.


It's always time to complain this is a baseball blog!
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#25 edavis0308

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 12:41 PM

We need a break from complaining about the Vikings :D

#26 gunnarthor

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:04 PM

Why would less offers drum up interest? The best way to push up value is to create competition among offers, not suppress them.

Im not worried that we haven't offered anything yet, but c'mon, lets not contort common sense.


Generating interest isn't the same as taking offers. I think it's reasonable for an agent to try and drum up interesting for his client before he starts taking offers, even if it's a blind bidding process. A team in the early stages might think player A is worth 2/10m but the agent might want to really shop him and build up interest, compare him to better players etc and the agent wouldn't want the original team to have already formed a 2/10m view of his player. I think its probably harder to move a team up if they've already made a valuation of the player.

Edited by gunnarthor, 26 November 2013 - 01:12 PM.


#27 gunnarthor

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:05 PM

We need a break from complaining about the Vikings :D


How can you complain, they tied!

#28 Rick Blaine

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:36 PM

I wonder if the Twins are waiting to see what happens with Tanaka before making any offers...well, one can dream.


When are the Tanaka sweepstakes held?

#29 gunnarthor

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:42 PM

When are the Tanaka sweepstakes held?


MLB and Japanese baseball are working out the kinks in the posting system. Might not get fixed.

#30 Guest_USAFChief_*

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Posted 26 November 2013 - 01:43 PM

I will never understand the gnashing of teeth that occurs before the Winter Meetings even get going.

If nothing happens by December 15th, then it's time to start complaining.


It might have smething to do with decades of Twins offseason history, and/or the fact other teams don't seem to think the offseason starts in mid December.