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Who says no first?

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#1 Cap'n Piranha

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:43 AM

In the proposed trade below, between St. Louis and the Twins.

Buxton and Meyer for Taveras and Wacha.

My gut says St. Louis says no before the Twins, but I'm curious to see what everyone else thinks.

#2 gunnarthor

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 09:46 AM

I think both say no but St Louis first.

The trade doesn't really work for St Louis as theIy lose a ML ready SP and don't get one back. (Or a SS, which is what they really want). Twins probably say no b/c they are rebuilding and, whether they make it or not, Buxton and Meyer both have higher ceilings than OT and Wacha. And even if they like Wacha more than Meyer (which I don't think is certain), I don't think they'd ever trade Buxton for someone who missed most of last season with an injury.

#3 ashburyjohn

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:01 PM

I'll go along with gunnarthor, such a trade doesn't seem like it scratches either team's itch. I suppose StL says no first, as they are in win-now mode and both their players are more developed, but the Twins probably say no just about as quickly, as losing Buxton is not part of their plan to improve pitching.

Here's one backatcha: Meyer to the Giants for Kyle Crick. I had the pleasure of watching both in their AFL game last week, and my son and I agreed we'd trade Meyer straight up for Crick, but that being said I suppose the Giants would ask for more.

#4 cmb0252

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:13 PM

I'll go along with gunnarthor, such a trade doesn't seem like it scratches either team's itch. I suppose StL says no first, as they are in win-now mode and both their players are more developed, but the Twins probably say no just about as quickly, as losing Buxton is not part of their plan to improve pitching.

Here's one backatcha: Meyer to the Giants for Kyle Crick. I had the pleasure of watching both in their AFL game last week, and my son and I agreed we'd trade Meyer straight up for Crick, but that being said I suppose the Giants would ask for more.


Crick and Meyer are almost the exact same prospect. Both right handers, both have plus-plus fastballs, both have plus breaking balls, both have poor command, and both missed almost two months this year due to injury. Wash.

As for the other proposed trade I think gunnarthor nailed it. I think Wacha is going to be hit hard next year. Even though he might already have the best changeup in the game, literally could be a 80 change up, he still doesn't have a third pitch. Teams are going to catch up to him like the red Sox did in game 6.

#5 ashburyjohn

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 01:28 PM

both have poor command


That was the difference I thought I saw last week. Meyer had a great game, no question, but I felt as though hitters were getting themselves out on pitches out of the strike zone and maybe he wouldn't have the same success (at present) against the very best hitters. While Crick was getting swings and misses on pitches at or near the strike zone.

Of course, a more talented scout than I might say that the very best hitters wouldn't swing through Crick's pitches. :)

#6 JP3700

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:15 PM

That was the difference I thought I saw last week. Meyer had a great game, no question, but I felt as though hitters were getting themselves out on pitches out of the strike zone and maybe he wouldn't have the same success (at present) against the very best hitters. While Crick was getting swings and misses on pitches at or near the strike zone.

Of course, a more talented scout than I might say that the very best hitters wouldn't swing through Crick's pitches. :)


I watched that game as well. Crick was very impressive in the first inning with that overpowering fastball. As the game went along though, the fastball lost a little life and he showed his lack of secondary pitches and hitters started putting the ball in play.

Meyer was much more polished. He showed the whole repertoire. He got three weak ground ball outs in the first on 7 pitches. Then he showed the ability to miss bats as the game went along. Fastball was mid to upper 90's with little effort into the 6th inning. That knuckle curve was nasty, just disappeared out of the zone. I saw a couple backdoor sliders and the change up has nice fade.

I saw the AFL Rising Stars game as well and Crick struggled in his lone inning of work. Allowed 2 hits and a walk and struck out none. Meyer wasn't dominant but he didn't allow a run in 3 innings and struck out 3.

The argument for Crick is that he is almost 4 years younger but from what I saw I'm happy that we have Meyer.

#7 JP3700

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:29 PM

As far as the proposed trade, I think the Twins say no and to me it's not close. Buxton is a better prospect than Taveras and I'm sure I'll sound crazy, but I think Meyer and Wacha are very close. I agree with Cmb, Wacha lacks a third pitch and the league will start to figure that out. Meyer has a better fastball and has 3 other pitches to go with it, with the knuckle curve being a plus pitch.

#8 cmb0252

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 02:42 PM

That was the difference I thought I saw last week. Meyer had a great game, no question, but I felt as though hitters were getting themselves out on pitches out of the strike zone and maybe he wouldn't have the same success (at present) against the very best hitters. While Crick was getting swings and misses on pitches at or near the strike zone.

Of course, a more talented scout than I might say that the very best hitters wouldn't swing through Crick's pitches. :)


Both of them looked great in that outing. Cricks fastball had some crazy movement. I honestly would be happy with either and am glad at least of them is ours!