Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Photo

Should Gardy and Ryan sign a pledge titled "No More Piranhas"?

  • Please log in to reply
11 replies to this topic

#1 nokomismod

nokomismod

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:42 AM

I like the Clete Thomas signing. Not because he hit the ball hard twice on his first game, but because he has the potential to hit 12-20 home runs if he plays 120 games. One thing that has been consistent with the Twins teams for the past ten years, is they have ~3-4 guys in the lineup that are quick but have no power threat. This was okay (not great) when the team had pitching, defense, and a couple of offensive horses. I would argue that the front office and Gardy focus on playing players with power potential if at all possible. Maybe this is too obvious or ...

#2 whydidnt

whydidnt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 367 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:49 PM

I like your premise, but the problem with Thomas is the guys he'll replace in the lineup (Doumit/Plouffe) probably have more power potential and better overall offensive potential. The problem is the Twins lack power from all SS, 2B, 3B, C and CF. They need to find someone at a couple of those positions that can at least put a charge in one every couple weeks. Mauer should be able to help, but until he figures out how to do more than ground to 2nd... and Valencia is simply not a power hitter, at least as far as 3B goes. Add-in Gardenhire's fetish to bat a middle IF 2nd regardless of ability and you usually end up with 3,4 or 5 guys in a row that don't scare the pitcher.

#3 gunnarthor

gunnarthor

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,707 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

Say what you will, Smith moved the team away from the piranha motiff. Gardy and Ryan want/like? it this way and with a big Target Field, maybe that is the way to go. Who knows. But get used to it.

#4 Todd G

Todd G

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 29 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:01 PM

I think your estimate of 12-20 home runs is a little rosy. I agree with your premise on the Twins lack of power, but I don't believe Clete Thomas is an answer. Power is expensive, in pitching and hitting, and it doesn't fit into the Twins brand of Moneyball.

#5 spideyo

spideyo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 603 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 03:14 PM

Part of the issue is that Target Field was designed in 2007, when we were still in the "piranha era". It wasn't built to be a big home run park because we didn't HAVE big home run guys at the time. I remember hearing discussions about how the Twins should have the grass as close to the base line as possible to accomodate our bunters. Unless they build giant wind barriers and/or a roof, even moving the fences won't make Target Field a home run park. We don't need a lot of homers to score runs at Target Field. We just need to get our batters hitting more line drives, more grounders through the holes. Look at Parmalee's hit down the line against the Angels, or the hit that went just over Thomas's head yesterday. Those are the kind of hits that we need. They don't need to be power shots, just well-placed hits being legged out.

#6 one_eyed_jack

one_eyed_jack

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 590 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 04:26 PM

If anything I'd rather see them get back to pirhana-ball. Home runs are exciting, but you don't necessarily have to be able to outslug everyone else to win. Only half of the last 10 World Series winners finished in the top 5 in the league in Home Runs. 3 of them finished in the bottom half of the league in that category. Target Field is not a home-run hitters park. And without major changes, it's not going to be. So why try to win by being a home-run hitting team? Runs count the same no matter how your score them. A towering 2-run shot may make for a great SportsCenter highlight. But having a couple of speedsters get on by walking or bunting or blooping, then stealing bases, then coming home on sacrifices and singles can make for long innings and be much more effective and wearing an opposing pitcher down.

#7 nokomismod

nokomismod

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 271 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 05:42 PM

If anything I'd rather see them get back to pirhana-ball. Home runs are exciting, but you don't necessarily have to be able to outslug everyone else to win.

Only half of the last 10 World Series winners finished in the top 5 in the league in Home Runs. 3 of them finished in the bottom half of the league in that category.

Target Field is not a home-run hitters park. And without major changes, it's not going to be. So why try to win by being a home-run hitting team? Runs count the same no matter how your score them. A towering 2-run shot may make for a great SportsCenter highlight. But having a couple of speedsters get on by walking or bunting or blooping, then stealing bases, then coming home on sacrifices and singles can make for long innings and be much more effective and wearing an opposing pitcher down.


Great info on the last 10 world series winners. How did they fare in pitching and fielding %? You guys have raised some great counter points. Just hard to watch us string together 5 hits for 2 runs only to see yankees score 2 with back to back hrs.

#8 spideyo

spideyo

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 603 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 06:40 PM

Yeah, but those wouldn't have been home runs at target field

#9 John Bonnes

John Bonnes

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 318 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:10 PM

Here's a premise for winning in the playoffs. I wonder how one could research it.... In the playoffs, when matchups become important, the teams who have the most weapons tend to do well. For instance, a team that is well-rounded: some speed, some power, good defense, starting pitching, solid LH and RH relievers - can find themselves facing a team that is one-dimensional (say, lots of power) and find ways to out maneuver them. They can use their bullpen to play L/R matchups more, because they can get away with it. They can squeak out a run ina close game. They can disrupt the pitcher with some stolen bases. In that way, maybe power becomes a crutch. It's valuable during a long season, but it keeps a team from developing it's other weapons?

#10 whydidnt

whydidnt

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 367 posts

Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:29 PM


Only half of the last 10 World Series winners finished in the top 5 in the league in Home Runs. 3 of them finished in the bottom half of the league in that category.


Sounds like a cherry picked stat to me. How come we only count the top 5 on the plus side, but the entire bottom half for the negative. It sounds to me like 7 of the last 10 World Series winners finished in the top half of the league in HRs. Sounds like hitting more HRs than the competition is pretty important.

#11 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 8,860 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks

Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:30 PM

Here's a premise for winning in the playoffs. I wonder how one could research it....

In the playoffs, when matchups become important, the teams who have the most weapons tend to do well. For instance, a team that is well-rounded: some speed, some power, good defense, starting pitching, solid LH and RH relievers - can find themselves facing a team that is one-dimensional (say, lots of power) and find ways to out maneuver them. They can use their bullpen to play L/R matchups more, because they can get away with it. They can squeak out a run ina close game. They can disrupt the pitcher with some stolen bases.

In that way, maybe power becomes a crutch. It's valuable during a long season, but it keeps a team from developing it's other weapons?


it usually takes luck timed at the right moments but I contend that you can't live by power alone. Sometimes good pitching especially a sinkerballer who's dealing can shut down the long ball. If you have a speed power combo. Those speed guys can create something out of nothing. Speed and power gives you more ways to win and you can never discount the value of speed on defense because those batters insist on hitting the ball everywhere forcing movement by the defense.

#12 Riverbrian

Riverbrian

    Goofy Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 8,860 posts
  • LocationGrand Forks

Posted 16 April 2012 - 08:49 PM

Sounds like a cherry picked stat to me. How come we only count the top 5 on the plus side, but the entire bottom half for the negative. It sounds to me like 7 of the last 10 World Series winners finished in the top half of the league in HRs. Sounds like hitting more HRs than the competition is pretty important.


lol... That's why I love stats. The framing of them makes all the difference. 4 out of 5 dentists recommend trident gum for people who chew gum. What was the sample size? Did they stop at 5 dentists and say that works for me? Were the dentists surveyed, fully aware of every other gum option before being forced to make a recommendation? Were they literally forced to make a recommendation? Does the line "for people who chew gum" mean your teeth are going to fall out but Trident is a much softer gum to actually have to gum? Is it possible that 2 of those 5 dentists think the other 3 dentists are idiots.

Disclaimer... I agree with one eyed jacks implication. Power by itself will not win.