Jump to content

Providing independent coverage of the Minnesota Twins.
Subscribe to Twins Daily Email

The Store

Recent Blogs

Photo

Article: Miguel Sano Relegated to First Base Already? You Must be Joking.

  • Please log in to reply
23 replies to this topic

#1 Twins Fan From Afar

Twins Fan From Afar

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 597 posts

Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:44 AM

You can view the page at http://twinsdaily.co...-Must-be-Joking
Andrew Walter
Twins Fan From Afar
Providing Twins and Rock Cats Coverage
http://twinsfanfroma...gspot.com<br />Follow me on Twitter: @MNfanfromafar

#2 Twins Daily Admin

Twins Daily Admin

    Administrator

  • Administrators
  • 185 posts

Posted 25 August 2013 - 10:57 AM

Don't forget Chris Parmelee and Trevor Plouffe on that first baseman list.

Yeah, it's silly to move him yet. It's silly to move him before he shows he can't in the majors. But I wouldn't be shocked if he is moved prior to the end of 2015, and maybe at the end of 2014. I'm getting a lot of mixed reviews on his D. He seems to be capable of making incredible plays, but maybe a bit inconsistent?

#3 Thegrin

Thegrin

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 382 posts

Posted 25 August 2013 - 11:06 AM

If Miguel Cabrera can play 3rd base on a Pennant winning team, Miguel Sano certainly can.

#4 TheLeviathan

TheLeviathan

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 4,899 posts

Posted 25 August 2013 - 04:56 PM

Given how rare it is to find an elite third baseman...you only move him to first in an complete emergency.

#5 Seth Stohs

Seth Stohs

    Owner

  • Administrators
  • 6,975 posts

Posted 25 August 2013 - 08:47 PM

I think you absolutely keep him at 3B. Reports I've been given and some others, he's probably already as good defensively as Plouffe. Is it great? No. Can he, at age 20, improve? Of course. He'll be fine.

#6 CharacterGroove

CharacterGroove

    Member

  • Members
  • 91 posts

Posted 25 August 2013 - 09:10 PM

This seems a little out of the blue.

#7 diehardtwinsfan

diehardtwinsfan

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 4,444 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 05:59 AM

I don't get this. He's being pushed by no one and it's much easier to find a 1B who can mash on the FA market than it is a 3B. I get that his defense may never be stellar, but he's 20... Defense can and will improve, and I'll sacrifice a bit with the glove for a kid that can absolutely mash at that position. Good hitting 3B aren't nearly as easy to find as people think.

#8 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,009 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:22 AM

Well that "move Mauer to 3rd" crowd is going to need to move Sano somewhere by June-ish, so . . .

But in reality, I would hope that Sano pushes Plouffe to where he should be--platooning *somewhere* with Parmelee.

#9 Boom Boom

Boom Boom

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,091 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 08:30 AM

Admittedly I haven't seen Sano play 3rd more than a couple clips. When you're comparing him to Plouffe, though, it seems like Trevor's fielding % is inflated a bit. He doesn't get hit with an error for being out of position (which he is frequently).

#10 YourHouseIsMyHouse

YourHouseIsMyHouse

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,235 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:19 AM

Given how rare it is to find an elite third baseman...you only move him to first in an complete emergency.


Sano should try to play 3rd, but I would say elite third basemen really aren't rare anymore. In fact, I'd say elite first basemen are rarer. Right now, there is a big talent wave at the hot corner. Miguel Cabrera, Manny Machado, Josh Donaldson, Adrian Beltre, David Wright, and Evan Longoria are all at an elite level. Then there's a good group below them with Seager, Uribe, Arenado, Headley, Prado, Lawrie, Alvarez, and Zimmerman. That's 15/30 starters playing at a high level at 3rd base with 6 of them being elite.
At first base, I'd only say Votto, Goldschmitt, and Davis are playing elite. That's 6 to 3 favoring 3rd. There's a quite a few good first basemen below them though. Swisher, Napoli, Craig, Trumbo, Freeman, Encarnacion, Belt, and Gonzalez add 8 more for 11/30.
There's quite a few more great athletes playing 3rd base in the minors too and I think the trend will continue for some time. I wouldn't be surprised if we see some more Kris Bryant types being drafted high. What's most interesting to look at is that every elite third baseman is on a contender (except David Wright).

Edited by YourHouseIsMyHouse, 26 August 2013 - 09:23 AM.


#11 Corntopper

Corntopper

    Junior Member

  • Members
  • 2 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:48 AM

Many infielders who later became thought of as having very good or great gloves made a lot of errors in the minor leagues. Koskie's milb fielding percentage was .924. Gaetti's was .925. George Brett's was .910. Twice Gaetti had more than 30 errors in a minor league season. Sano's fielding percentage this year is .930.

#12 Bob Sacamento

Bob Sacamento

    Member

  • Members
  • 84 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 09:52 AM

Admittedly I haven't seen Sano play 3rd more than a couple clips. When you're comparing him to Plouffe, though, it seems like Trevor's fielding % is inflated a bit. He doesn't get hit with an error for being out of position (which he is frequently).

Living in Ft. Myers I've got to see Sano play in the GCL, instructs (watching him work with Molitor every morning was kinda cool) and the FSL. He has definitely gotten better, less brick hands and more accurate throws. He'll never be an elite defender but should be at least adequate to stay there. The player I liken him to defensively would be Aramis Ramirez.

#13 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 8 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:51 AM

I'm getting a lot of mixed reviews on his D. He seems to be capable of making incredible plays, but maybe a bit inconsistent?


That was the book on Florimon before this year, wasn't it? Maturity can sometimes smooth out the rough edges.

#14 ashburyjohn

ashburyjohn

    Twins Moderator

  • Twins Moderators
  • 8 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 10:58 AM

This seems a little out of the blue.


If you are referring to a specific post, please report it rather than try to police it yourself in the thread. I already deleted one post above yours for violating Comments Policy on insulting individuals, which may have been what you referred to, and another one was close to the edge.

/ edit - and then someone else coming after CharacterGroove's comment made me delete their post, apparently feeling that since moderation this morning hadn't been instantaneous, it was open season on personal attacks. Remember that the Comments Policy item asking for respect includes everyone, not just posters here. And Andrew's article is about Sano, not about a journalist, so staying on-topic is another reason to tone down the rhetoric.

Edited by ashburyjohn, 26 August 2013 - 11:16 AM.


#15 Teflon

Teflon

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 232 posts

Posted 26 August 2013 - 11:20 AM

American League third basemen had 6,168 chances in 20,285 innings last year. This works out to 2.73 chances per game. Based on the actual opportunities for making plays at 3B, some might be overvaluing the value of defense at this position.

On second thought - given the Twins pitchers' inability to strike out batters, I'll concede that this number is probably 10% more significant for us right now than for other teams.

#16 kab21

kab21

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,315 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:25 AM

I hope everyone actually read the article and realize that this is only the opinion of Tom Powers and not the org. So far Sano is showing that he can at least play the position and Plouffe has done nothing to show that he should be part of the long term plans at 3B. After Plouffe there is almost nothing at 3B for the Twins. Romero isn't a starter and Harrison's defense is just as suspect as Sano's.

If the Twins had an .800+ OPS average or better fielding 3Bman that was part of the long term plans then Sano would likely be ticketed to 1B. but, umm, yeah...

#17 Jdosen

Jdosen

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 118 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 12:41 AM

Not that I think he should be moved off 3B by any means, but if the Twins were to have Sano make a change, wouldn't it behoove them to move him to RF, where his incredible arm strength wouldn't be wasted?

#18 cmathewson

cmathewson

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,273 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 04:45 AM

Well that "move Mauer to 3rd" crowd is going to need to move Sano somewhere by June-ish, so . . .

But in reality, I would hope that Sano pushes Plouffe to where he should be--platooning *somewhere* with Parmelee.


Mauer belongs at first. He could win a gold glove over there.
"If you'da been thinkin' you wouldn't 'a thought that.."

#19 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,792 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 07:58 AM

Mauer belongs at first. He could win a gold glove over there.


That would be great, but a Gold Glove at first base doesn't mean too much, really. It certainly won't justify the contract. We need a power hitter there who can catch throws somewhat consistently.

#20 70charger

70charger

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 1,119 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:23 AM

Not that I think he should be moved off 3B by any means, but if the Twins were to have Sano make a change, wouldn't it behoove them to move him to RF, where his incredible arm strength wouldn't be wasted?


This does seem like a better idea. Not that awesome athleticism is required for RF, but almost no athleticism is required for 1B. (Hell, if Prince Fielder can do it, my 2 year old niece probably could.) By all accounts, Sano is quick, fast, and athletic. Why waste him at 1B?

Of course, you're also right that this assumes he'd be moved off 3B. I don't think we're there yet.

#21 Shane Wahl

Shane Wahl

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 4,009 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 09:41 AM

That would be great, but a Gold Glove at first base doesn't mean too much, really. It certainly won't justify the contract. We need a power hitter there who can catch throws somewhat consistently.


Is a power hitter at first that necessary if you have one at third?

I know you are being flip, but "catch throws somewhat consistently" does not sound good in the slightest. I can see Mauer being Morneau-esque at scooping throws, he has good height, and he is quicker than Morneau. Mauer has made some good plays in his time at first. I don't want to sit here and undervalue defense at first and overvalue defense at third.

#22 jokin

jokin

    Twins News Team

  • Twins News Team
  • 6,792 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:01 AM

Is a power hitter at first that necessary if you have one at third?

I know you are being flip, but "catch throws somewhat consistently" does not sound good in the slightest. I can see Mauer being Morneau-esque at scooping throws, he has good height, and he is quicker than Morneau. Mauer has made some good plays in his time at first. I don't want to sit here and undervalue defense at first and overvalue defense at third.


My comments were partly based, and dependent upon how long the Twins play the waiting game on Sano next year, and how long it takes for Sano to reliably establish himself in the field and at the plate as the Twins starting Third Baseman.

And hey, the Detroit Tigers have done quite well with power hitters at both First and Third, and their defense at those positions ranks near the worst in all of baseball.

And we can't ignore the reality that a Mark Grace+ at 1B can never be worth $23M/yr.

#23 Mave

Mave

    Member

  • Members
  • 62 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:13 AM

If Miguel Cabrera can play 3rd base on a Pennant winning team, Miguel Sano certainly can.


Seconded.

One more for you: Pablo. Sandoval. World Series Champion.

#24 IdahoPilgrim

IdahoPilgrim

    Senior Member

  • Members
  • 2,423 posts

Posted 27 August 2013 - 10:31 AM

And we can't ignore the reality that a Mark Grace+ at 1B can never be worth $23M/yr.


In your view, is there a position that does justify the $23M/yr contract?

In my view the answer is No, so I've stopped worrying about what position best fits Mauer's contract. I think we should play him where he can do the most good and just accept the money is a sunk cost that can't be changed.

My own sense is, if you do have a power-hitting 1B, then Mauer can alternate being catching and DHing. If you don't have a power-hitting 1B, then Mauer should play first to reduce injury risk.